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  #1  
Old 16-03-2014, 10:57 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
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Default Testing methanol purity ?

Best, easy, cheap ? etc

Which way is there, if any ?
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  #2  
Old 16-03-2014, 11:37 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

Are we taking between 99% to 99.9%?
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  #3  
Old 17-03-2014, 12:09 AM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

Not really.

We bought a drum of methanol to mix 20% with normal SUL petrol and were running that for a bit last year. However after 2 sets of injectors failures....concerns were raised.
And these injectors are supposed to be methanol safe

When this mix is poured into a jar, almost immediately it separates very visibly

Another car I work on is running the same, and did all last year. Same methanol type, same source, same type of drum. But not the same drum. This car ran faultlessly, and still does.

Both drums were brand new and sealed from same supplier.

Checking this car over for racing this year, we poured some of their fuel into a jar. Even after quite some time, no separation was noticed.

Now the car that ran faultlessly was also using different injectors, so that aspect might be unrelated.

Both drums were medical grade pure methanol from the same chemical supplier.

So something has to be up with one of them. Ive another drum here Ive had for years, still havent got around to mixing some petrol with it though.

But it does bring into question...when we use methanol...how do we know how much methanol is really in it ?
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Old 17-03-2014, 12:26 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

Was your fuel tank sealed? If methanol absorbed some water over time. it could corrode the injector. Need to open up the failed injector and see what caused it.
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Old 17-03-2014, 12:49 AM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

Tanks are sealed as tanks normally are. Methanol drum has it's normal cap, and was barely opened 3-4 times prior to this usage, new 200L drum.

Both sets of injectors failed within a few hundred miles...if even that much.

One set had been used in another car for a a few years with normal petrol...weeks in the other car and they actually stopped working.

Brand new set replaced them...same again.

They actually got to the point where when any pressure at all was applied across the injector ( testing with air afterwards ), the injector would click once, then remain shut as long as there was pressure applied. Even 3-4psi. Free air, it would open and close on command

All 4 ended up like that.

Several months on when same happened the second set. We went back to the first set, and they had actually started working again fairly normally testing on the bench.
No way were they going back in though

Both sets are away to get tested and prelim results are they flow like F all, with huge variations across all 8. But they are actually working again as far as opening and closing go.

Very weird scenario. The secondary injectors on the same car seemed to work fine throughout.

The purity query was more about the methanol separating from the petrol. I'm assuming most likely a high water content would cause this ?

Also, what would cause such problems to an ID1000 injector ? water ? methanol ?

Ironically...we opted for mixing with the fuel on this car over concerns about WI pump systems failing.

The irony !
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  #6  
Old 17-03-2014, 08:46 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

This looks more like a injector design than a fluid induced problem.

I have often wonder how the iD managed to make a very high flow fuel injector with excellent response time so I dug a bit deeper. AFAIK, they reverse the pinto direction. Instead of the fuel pressure act against the direction of the sprung pinto movement, it assists it.

This requires some design changes in order for this to work.

1. The spring that pulls the valve shut has to be stronger
2. Higher flow (bigger orifice) requires even strong springs.
3. The 16 ohm coil can only generate a fixed electromagnetic force.

So based on the above assumptions, if you have not balanced the differential pressure in the dynamic condition of your set up, the injector is not going to open properly to allow a linear flow or stop injecting all together.

This condition will worsen:
1. When the injector coil heats up (less power)
2. 12V supply voltage is decreased. (voltage drop across a lesser wire gauge)
3. Boost pressure increase will slow down the opening time or event stop it from opening.

I think you should try running the injector with a 12V voltage boosted. or increase the differential fuel pressure regulator.

V^2/R = power

12x12/16 = 9 watts
15x15/16 = 14W watts

An extra increase of 1.5x [power feed to the injector coil.

This just a wild guess.
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Old 17-03-2014, 09:34 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

The ID1000's are a Bosch 47lb with the spray cap removed as far as I know...and the Bosch part number partially ground off.

The larger 2000's which were fine, are CNG, Compressed Natural Gas injectors.

The ID1000's will not be going back near the car.
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  #8  
Old 17-03-2014, 09:42 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

Removing the cap without other modification is bad news.

This further skew the entire original design criteria that makes the high flow/high impedance injector work correctly.
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  #9  
Old 17-03-2014, 09:46 PM
stevieturbo stevieturbo is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

It's a fairly common modification on a lot of injectors. And cheap way of getting more flow.

It sounds wrong, but it does seem to work pretty well
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  #10  
Old 17-03-2014, 09:50 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Testing methanol purity ?

It will work if the application is not too demanding.

What were those injectors used on?
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