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Old 04-11-2016, 12:37 PM
benstian benstian is offline
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Default Switching from E85 to 98 Ron +50% water/meth mixture.

Hi,
The E85 pump are removed from my area, and I want to go for 98 pump + 50/50 Water/meth.
I am currently running 680 whp (Dynapack) in my 2.3l Evo 2 with E85.
What size jets should I go for?
I read one place that it is recommended 1,5cc pr hp if I understood correctly?
I believe my crank hp are about 750-800 hp, so this should be about 1200cc of water/meth total? (800 x 1,5 = 1200)
Will my power output be about the same as E85 when tuned correctly?

Thanks
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:07 PM
rotrex rotrex is offline
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Default Re: Switching from E85 to 98 Ron +50% water/meth mixture.

That flow should be a good starting point.
Power wise you should be able to hit similar numbers if tuned correctly.
As usual I recommend direct port injection right i front of the fuel injectors to get the most out of the water component.
I believe the reason the US folks getting better results with higher methanol content is that they centrifuge their water out of the air flow as the mist has to take tight turns though the plenum. That water stream will pass right through the engine with little effect combustion.
if the run a higher methanol content, they get more benefit from it. the methanol evaporates even as a stream and acts as a high octane fuel.

Once you run direct port nozzles on the top side of the plenum right in front of the fuel injectors, the mist has a chance to make it pass the intake valves.
See the picture of my Rover K with direct port wate injection. The mist hit the piston front and rear in a uniform matter on all 4 cylinders. It shows that water mist is paying both the front and the rear face of the intake valves just like the fuel does.

Have you also considered installing a dual injection system? Add a extra bank of fuel injectors, a fuel pump and a small race gas tank. Then inject race gas, e85 or even pure methanol or ethanol when on full throttle? You need ECU support to operate a 2nd injector bank.
Frank Profera does this with his Lotus running 680HP out of 1.8l. He uses pure isopropanol as WOT fuel.
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:14 PM
benstian benstian is offline
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Default Re: Switching from E85 to 98 Ron +50% water/meth mixture.

Thanks for the info rotrex.
Someone states injecting pre-throttle are better, but I dont know...

Yes I actually planned to run a dual fuel system, but if I can get just as much power with a water/meth kit, I dont think I would bother running a second set of injectors, fpr, lines, fuel pump and tank.
I have no problems setting it up in my in my Vi-PEC/Link ecu.

Anyone have some dyno results E85 vs 98+water/meth?

Last edited by benstian; 04-11-2016 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:19 PM
rotrex rotrex is offline
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Default Re: Switching from E85 to 98 Ron +50% water/meth mixture.

pre throttle works well with non-charge cooled engines and in high boost applications (auch as yours). IMHO rice racing's air assisted spray works best for this purpose.
His systems inject a very fine mist in the air filter housing. This way the mist has time to travel and evaporate. Within the turbo. a part of the mix further evaporates leaving a extremely fine mist behind that actually has a chance to make it into the cylinder.

I have tried pre-turbo on a Rotrex C30-74 and a C30-94. Any jet bigger than a 03mm (75ml/min) and I got condensation indicated by IAT fluctuations (IAT sensor position past CC).

if done incorrectly, the water will be lost on the walls of the intake piping and you life of the methanol content.

So either air assisted spray pre-turbo (read his thread here in the stickies on top) or direct port in the proper location near the fuel injectors. Everything else is a compromise, albeit way easier to install and maintain. Most do not dare to tune to fully take advantage of high flow water meth injection in fear of a failure of the system.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:23 PM
benstian benstian is offline
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Default Re: Switching from E85 to 98 Ron +50% water/meth mixture.

Thanks for the info.

Anyone with some e85 vs 98 +water/meth dyno results?
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