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  #11  
Old 13-06-2011, 11:47 PM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

yes. under the car. but above the rear diffuser.
i have added water proofing measures.
i will further add a proper water tight seal around the wiring and pump.
dont worry , the car is not on the road yet!

is that ok richard?
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  #12  
Old 19-06-2011, 10:44 PM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

here is the new FAV richard sent me. more suited to he mini for a straighter more faster response.
38 new noz.jpg

water tank installed in the boot of the car. with the custom aquamist vinyl stickers. with 55% METH and 45% distilled water. = 50/50 mix
39 tank.jpg

here is tghe main aquamist ecu.
40 ecu.jpg
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  #13  
Old 19-06-2011, 10:50 PM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Smile Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

after many weeks of research and gathering the small parts for the job. IT WAS DONE!!!

thanks to richard and roger for the help.

i finally fired up the car. to check if the sysytem was installed right. after a small hic up in forgetting to solder a link on the board. the system was installed perfectly. witrh richard on the phone. we went through all stages to see if all was fine. and yes. he was very impressed with the install. all went well. not bad for a beginner.
just had todo the tedious task of fine tuning it for my requirements.
after many questions to richard.
i went out with the car. the nozzle on the windscreen. and i adjusted the triggers and fail safe options quite rigurously. and after a day or two of that.
i was ready to inject the good stuff into the intake.......
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  #14  
Old 19-06-2011, 11:36 PM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

ok. major read here. must read.

ok. here it is. after all this time. i am finally going to give it a road test.
so this is the main part. whats it like on the road? was it worth it? money well spent?
these are the questions that all may be asking......
with 45% to a 55% meth mixture. equals 50/50.
***update*** the following findings are from 3 days of testing in 5 test sessions.

1st session> went out nervously. in great anticipation. and after a mile or so. looking at the guage. the system was triggering just fine. i didnt notice anything at first. and i continued to set the gain and thres points whilst going over everything. step by step and a slow process. but i was in no rush. no power or gains noticed.

2nd session> so the system was set up almost perfectly. and on with the test. i started to gradually give it some juice. some weird and loud pops and bangs from the exhaust . nice. for all those that know. the jcw has got a habit of that. but it seemed like the gates of hell opened up a little more.
normally the pops and burbles would go on or about 1 sec after you lift off the throttle. but now it goes on for about 2 secs. double than before. its like theres extra gasoline or mixture that keeps burning for a little longer.

but i didnt really notice any power gains as such.
so i devised a little plan to see if this was all a placebo. so what i did was put the guage hidden away from my view. where i cannot see if it is on or off. i told my brother to either turn it off or on. with out me knowing. and i would have to guess by just driving the car.

so we did that. off i went. i noticed some wheel spin and the power was great and kept building. impressed .
i took the guage from him and told him that the water meth is working.
to my suprise. IT WAS OFF!
I SLOWED DOWN AND THOUGHT DEEPLY.
got todo that again. so we did it again.
this time i noticed less power slightly and a slower top end power.
so i told him to switch it to the other setting. and within seconds. i said yes. this last setting is definitely more power. he showed me that the last setting was water meth off. i was looking very puzzled and confused.
i told him todo it one last time. first go i felt the power. and he switched, and a noticable decrease in power and a hesitation on the second run. he showed me and the first one was off, and the second slower run was water meth on!!!!

we ended the day with me quite dissapointed but more intrigued. what was going on???

3rd session> the nextday i tested again.
now i noticed a loud drone with the meth on. at 4-5000rpm. like a back fire pop and drone. a bit like firing an automatic rifle magazine but with the drone sound. and also noticed more hesitaion on accelaraion. and then later on with decelaration.
then i turned it off. and everything went back to normal. what is going on???:sad:
kept trying it on. same thing as above. hesitation and ocassional drone.
turned it off and all fine.

4th session> armed with a diagnostics machine. i looked for live data feed of the engine parameters. and found the IAT. intake air temp.
so with a live road test and a handy graph on the odb2 machine. i went out with my brother. at rolling start. 5mph. IAT temp was at 15`c.
with water meth off. so i floored it in 1st upto 6000rpm. 2nd 6000rpm and 3rd ot 6000rpm. wow. that was cool! anyway. the temp climbed pretty fast to 30-31`c
so i went round again. same spot. same road.
this time with water meth on. 5mph rolling with the temp at 17`c. slightly higher than before.
ok. so i floored it in 1st upto 6000rpm. 2nd 6000rpm and 3rd ot 6000rpm.
temp went upto to 25`c. there was slight power loss and hesitaion whilst i got there.

but not suprisingly. the water meth was working. it was actually and quite clearly doing its job! cooling the IAT

wow! what a day. some good findings here. but what the f$%* is going on.
its like the car dont like the cooler air/water. the ecu is reading cooler but its not adjusting accordingly. well, it is adjusting, but negatively.
as far as my knowledge is concerned. im finished. need the expert advice of roger or richard. or any one else with the knowledge.

to be continued........

Last edited by shams1924; 20-06-2011 at 02:34 AM.
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  #15  
Old 20-06-2011, 03:27 AM
Howerton Engineering Howerton Engineering is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

What size jet are you running?

Does the car run less boost with the system on and spraying?
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  #16  
Old 20-06-2011, 07:55 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

It sounds like the engine is having problem firing the mixture. The 1 to 2 secomd run on is evident the mixture continued to burn down the exhaust pipe.

I am not knowledgeable with Minis but all Minis I have encountered uses 100% methanol. The next logical step is try running 100% methanol. Perhaps a smaller jet with 50:50.

Just to recap, what is the fuel injector size?
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  #17  
Old 20-06-2011, 11:56 AM
zakshaker zakshaker is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

have you checked A/F ratio ?
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  #18  
Old 20-06-2011, 02:54 PM
shams1924 shams1924 is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howerton Engineering View Post
What size jet are you running?

Does the car run less boost with the system on and spraying?
running 0.8mm jet. with no restrictor. i think its too much flow. even tho richard lashed the ecu for a smaller flow. roger suggested like a 0.5mm jet.

i will check if its running less boost.
update*** just went out with the 0.5mm restrictor. no flow on the bar graph. turned the SC on the guage and still no flow. i will now check the next size restrictor. 0.7mm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakshaker View Post
have you checked A/F ratio ?
ill try to do that. do most decent odb2 machines have the feature to check that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L View Post
It sounds like the engine is having problem firing the mixture. The 1 to 2 secomd run on is evident the mixture continued to burn down the exhaust pipe.

I am not knowledgeable with Minis but all Minis I have encountered uses 100% methanol. The next logical step is try running 100% methanol. Perhaps a smaller jet with 50:50.

Just to recap, what is the fuel injector size?
i think the fuel injector size is around 400cc/min


***update***
thanks to all who have helped above. i will try those suggestions now. and hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.

@Howerton Engineering
did you have similar experiences to what i noticed when you tune the minis r56?
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  #19  
Old 20-06-2011, 03:54 PM
Howerton Engineering Howerton Engineering is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

I think the .8mm will be a bit too much when running 50/50. You can try 100% methanol with that jetting and it my work depending on the tune and peak boost you are running.

You may need to drop a couple of jet sizes for 50/50, just my guess without more data on the car.
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  #20  
Old 20-06-2011, 10:31 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Default Re: Mini R56 2009 Factory JCW HFS-3 Install (Cooper s owners too)

Water/methanol injection does not make power by itself. I am listing out three typical forced induction applications (sensible AFR):

1. Untuned:- Do not inject over 10-15% water/fuel ratio.
- It will help recovering power loss due to huigh ambient of poor fuel octane.

2. Mildly tuned with a few psi of boost increase:
- Inject 15%+ water/fuel ratio

3. Highly tuined with tens of psi boost increase:
- Inject 20%+ water/fuel ratio

When adding methanol to the mix, injection quantity has to be increased by greater 20-50% extra.

Over injection will result in power loss especially with boost increase or tuned. Once tuned, failsafe implementation is essential.


Shams1924...
I like to confirm howerton's comment, either run a small jet or go for 100% methanol ro avoid blowning out the sparks.

Assuming the mini uses 400cc/min fuel injectors. 15-20% of fuel is 240-320cc/min. At present, you are injecting over 450cc/min with a 0.8mm jet. The size is too big for an untuned engine. The reason for your power loss.
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