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  #21  
Old 21-03-2005, 05:40 PM
TurboGTi TurboGTi is offline
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Richard alot of people out there who know aquamist products know the quality and the engineering that goes into the products.

Hey look at me m car is a suzuki swift Gti which i turbo'd i could have bought a cheapo kit and used it but no i heard about your product from my local dealer i researched the product and i paid the price of admission.
Granted the water injection kit is worth close to the price of the car

But its the quality that i go for ... people ask me why i bought such an expensive product i tell them this " YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR " Simple.

I'm currently waiting on the DDS3 Richard !
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  #22  
Old 21-03-2005, 09:50 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboGTi
Richard alot of people out there who know aquamist products know the quality and the engineering that goes into the products.

Hey look at me m car is a suzuki swift Gti which i turbo'd i could have bought a cheapo kit and used it but no i heard about your product from my local dealer i researched the product and i paid the price of admission.
Granted the water injection kit is worth close to the price of the car

But its the quality that i go for ... people ask me why i bought such an expensive product i tell them this " YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR " Simple.

I'm currently waiting on the DDS3 Richard !
We will continue in that vein - if there are enough people there like yourself to keep us going - There are a hugh amount of modern machineries we have to invest to keep the quality up.

Suzuki turboed by yourself - you have to be pretty serious to go into that depth. I have found engineering very challenging indeed and very satisfying when things go to tegether nicely.

The DDS3 is not that far away, I will let you know the minute it is avaliable.
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  #23  
Old 21-03-2005, 10:23 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Originally Posted by Wet1
Richard,
I have to think anyone with half a brain would see the difference between the cheap kits and the better kits that contain important performance and safety features. I think you'll find the people buying the cheap kits are the ricers... remember, 'natural selection' is a good thing. :lol: Seriously, people don't mind paying more for a better product, if it's truly better... I know I don't mind. There will always be 'cheap' products, don't compete with those guys... that's not the matket you want, think premium.

Either way, AI/WI is here to stay, it's only going to grow.

While I agree using a MAP sensor to vary AI output is not ideal, IMO it is somewhat progressive and far superior to the cheaper "on/off" systems. As boost increases so does AI output. It's very similar to the cheap FMU some of the aftermarket forced induction suppliers include / included in there kits. The FMU's are nothing more than a boost referenced FPR. Crude? Yes, but it does work to a certain degree.

I'm using a GM MAP sensor with an Alky Control PAC to control my system. The PAC has the "Ability to electronically adjust turn-on point, initial pump speed pressure, and ramp gain of final pump speed pressure using any 12volt injection pump." Far from the ideal system, but it has worked great for me. Ideally I'd love to see a 3D mappable computer to control output hit the market. I guess it's only a matter of time before a DFI type AI kit hits the streets. While this would be ideal, what I'm using now has been working great for me... I don't think I'd need anything more. BUT, I can only imagine what some of the serious tuners would do with a mappable system.

I'm going to be out of town for a few days... take care guys. :wink:

Scot

I consider yourself as a pretty serious guy on technical issues. If you are happy with what you have already and would not be considering a better system, that is little chance that you are going to try our system if it is made available - either way it is working well, why change.

It is a pity that there are so many people out there respond to marketing hypes - buying something at half price and think they are getting a bargain. I assure you that they are not -99.9% of the time they are wrong, but they are convinced that they are the in "0.1%" group all the time.

It doesn't really matter if if you are injecting water or alcohol, it is just a personal preference, the two concepts are totally different. At 50% mix - they become one. It is always the two ends that causes debate and sometimes war of words, totally pointless.

I think the common ground is the equipment used - but if the equipment cannot deliver a fluid at a predictable rate, you simply cannot compare the results. There are thousands of SAE papers available to read but I am certain that you will find "none" that compares the two concepts in one study. I don't think either of us have the resources to do such a study - at least I know I cannot afford it.

I really hope you are right about AI/WI concept will grow. :razz:

Here are a few links if you are interested:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/refer.html
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  #24  
Old 25-03-2005, 08:26 PM
JScoob JScoob is offline
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Richard,

You mentioned that the HSV uses the same seals as the pump. Does that mean that regardless of the pump and its seals, we would still be limited by the HSV? I would like to try running 100% methanol or 100% ethanol for example...
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  #25  
Old 25-03-2005, 09:21 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JScoob
Richard,

You mentioned that the HSV uses the same seals as the pump. Does that mean that regardless of the pump and its seals, we would still be limited by the HSV? I would like to try running 100% methanol or 100% ethanol for example...
I have to correct this, the seals of the pump and the HSV is different but will have the same resistant to methanol. And the same problem with ethanol and isopropyl.

Methanol:
50%- long term
75% medium term (a week or two)
75% -95% -short term (a day) -people have done it longer than this, but I have not tested it in the dynamic conditions. I have tested it at 100% in static conditions and cannot detect any ill effects - six months or so.

Ethanol: strictly no more than 5% at any period. Over 10% shown signs of absorption and started to affect the designed piston/seal tolerances - piston-seal wear will acceleralate. If you can re-seal the pump yourself, it will coat you 20 cents per seal.

Isopropanyl: 25% is fine long term.

Every part of the aquamist pump is replaceable - part veried between 10 cent to 50 dollars (complete centre tube). On occasion when water got inside the pump and causes massive corrosion, it is much cheaper to exchange the old pump for a new one at 50% of the retail price -after warranty period.

The most import thing to remember - try not to place the pump in direct path of water splash - I bet no manufacturer would put an engine management system that way. It almost all cases, we replace the pump under warranty under a year even it shown signs of water splash - the surface of the casing is a good story teller.

I believe I have sent you a pump centre tube recently with a complete set teflon interbnnal seals - you can try to run anything you want with it - It is experiemental for us and you will be well supported
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  #26  
Old 25-03-2005, 10:56 PM
JScoob JScoob is offline
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Yes, I did receive the new center tube - thank you.

I was hoping the HSV could hold up longer, but it seems to me you're saying even with my new teflon seal pump I still can't run 100% methanol because of the HSV...is there a way to upgrade the HSV components as well?
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  #27  
Old 25-03-2005, 11:41 PM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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The HSV is made of a different material with higher resistance to methanol but it is not possible to change the seal of the HSV to teflon due to their functions. May research into other materials in the future if we decided to go for 100% alcohol injection. Until then you got the best we can offer for the moment.
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  #28  
Old 26-03-2005, 12:06 AM
JScoob JScoob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L
The HSV is made of a different material with higher resistance to methanol but it is not possible to change the seal of the HSV to teflon due to their functions. May research into other materials in the future if we decided to go for 100% alcohol injection. Until then you got the best we can offer for the moment.
Can I run 75% methanol through the HSV long term?
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  #29  
Old 26-03-2005, 12:28 AM
Richard L Richard L is offline
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Yes, you can. 75% is no problem.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2005, 12:15 PM
rarson rarson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet1
Richard,
While I agree using a MAP sensor to vary AI output is not ideal, IMO it is somewhat progressive and far superior to the cheaper "on/off" systems. As boost increases so does AI output. It's very similar to the cheap FMU some of the aftermarket forced induction suppliers include / included in there kits. The FMU's are nothing more than a boost referenced FPR. Crude? Yes, but it does work to a certain degree.
Yes, but the difference here is they are increasing the amount of fuel added to the stock map proportionally to the amount of boost being run. Whereas, with the AI system, you're increasing the amount of alcohol being injected period. There's no "map" that you're adding to, and thus you won't have the curve that you would have in the other example despite the fact that boost reaches a certain level. Just thought I'd point that out.

Also, I just wanted to say that this is a really great thread and it has convinced me that I need a quality system for the setup I want. I will have to peruse Aquamist's products a bit more. I appreciate the extraordinate amount of tech and customer support made available by this forum; it speaks volumes of the kind of company Aquamist is.
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