:sad:

I wouldn't expect a great deal of gain in winter without tuning. Water's main work is cooling and if there are little cooling to be do , it will have to induce soem heat ( Boost, leaning fuel etc) to get the benifits - In summer, it will be a different story.

Richard

Friday is good for me, not sure what time yet though. I'll let you know.

Great, just post the time here.

Richard

i can report that wi does help in piston cooling as i have proven this down at courtenays on there rollers(ask jon) i have a jet in the throttle body and i am using a 75/25 meth/wat mix,we did a run without wi on and the ecu cut the timing due to the heat soak but with wi on the ecu did not cut the timing at all so it does help keep temp down so in a way it is a gain in safety and peace of mind that ur engine is running more cooler so there is less chance of pinking at higher rpm. :D. i am running two s1 kits one for piston cooling and one for charged air cooling(switch off at mo as dont need it up here in a very cold aberdeen lol) i also have a custom made water tank for the charged air cooling only,

http://img499.imageshack.us/img499/9...20050014oc.jpg

Neil, so your jet is after the induction temp sensor. It is interesting to know that you had a gain by doing it this way. This is what we plan to do on Friday, hopefully I will be able to feel a difference between before and after the inlet temp sensor.

Richard - how does 9:30am Friday sound to you?

9.30 am is fine, I will be there. How much time do you have?

Richard

As much as you need as I have the whole day off. :)

Wondeful - we can try a few others things as well.

Sounds interesting. :D

I look forward to it.

Oh, I just spoke to Courtenay and the target lambda on my setup is 0.8, not 0.78 as stated previously in this thread.

Please let us know how you get on....

Ditto :wink:

Richard, the car feels better than it was with WI before. I'll have to drive it a bit more to work out if it feel better or worse than no WI at all, I'll l et you know in a few days. First impressions are pretty good though.

Thanks for today, always interesting when I pay you a visit. :D

Mike,

Sounds encouraging, I must admit that I am surpised by the change so far. You will probably post more impression as you drive the car more.

You can actually make yourself a WI on/off switch by the blue led we installed today. Just short across the led will have the same effect as "shutting off" thr WI. You can do the switching whilst on boost (watch the road !!!), this way you can feel the change more readily.

I will post a few pictures of the re-located water jet later.

Richard

Ah - good idea. I'll wire that in this weekend. :) My photos were not great, so I thought I'd wait for yours instead of posting mine.

I have just re-sized this picture of the relocated jet position.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gall...e-position.jpg

Before:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gall...tra/before.jpg

After:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/astra/after.jpg

Hows the car going ?

yes please do tell......

It is difficult to tell. I'll fit a switch so that I can turn it on and off while driving - hopefully then I'll be able to feel the difference.

I was thinking of putting the jet in the same place a mike had his in the first place, But i was going to put mine inline with the air flow. My reasoning is that if the jet aims strait at the other side of the pipe it will not stay atomised, where as in line with the flow it should stay as a fine mist !?!

In the Aquamist instructions it states very clearly not to do this. I'm not sure the reason why, maybe Richard could explain.

:? Dont know what the reason could be ! Think i have seen a pic of some inline jets on a supra !

how i see it, mist shouldn't make it to the other side of the pipe. the air should pick the water up on the way past, giving a better mix/cylinder distribution. and probably better atomization at the same time. just the same as adding an extra injector to the intake pipe, never aim it down the throttle body. as you will get rich and lean cylinders

Water is normally injected under boost, the mass of the charge air has enough momentum to drag the water droplets in the direction of the flow.

The effect is similar to a smoking chimmey on a windy day.

So why shouldnt it be down stream with the air flow ? The place i planed to put it isnt pointing in the throttle body ( its about 2.5 3 foot away !) , surely it will be atomised as soon as it leaves the jet !?!

You are right, it should atomise regardless.

I'd like to share with you my Astra Turbo wi install.

In this pic, you can see the VXR intake pipe with a custom section from the intercooler containing the injector.
http://fileshare.turblue.com/water%2...n/DSCF0012.JPG

This pic is the custom section with the injector. The pipe diameter is 2 inch.
http://fileshare.turblue.com/water%2...n/DSCF0014.JPG

This pic shows how the injector is placed. It is milled to reduce restriction. It is placed to spray into the oncoming airflow.
http://fileshare.turblue.com/water%2...n/DSCF0060.JPG

I have not done a dyno run yet, so I can't indicate power levels. But I can tell you from the ECU logs I have collected that the system certainly drops the inlet temps.

37C outside temp.
60C inlet temp with no wi.
38C inlet temp with wi.

Here is a graph of the ECU log.
http://fileshare.turblue.com/water%2.../hot%20day.jpg

Cheers..!!!!

Mike,

I have been planning the MAF trimming circuit, it enables to to do the following task:

1) Build into a box about 100mm x 50mm x 25mm
2) Upon switching on (manual switch) the MAF signal go through a number of modifications.
3) The "start trimming voltage" reaches a user preset voltage (~3-5V)
4) Once the voltage is reached, the MAF voltage will start slopping downwards (less upwards).
5) The "amount" of slope is user adjustable, limited to ~20%.
6) A 0-1V Bargraph display monitor the lambda value. (splice into the existing sensor). It is not perfect but you should see rich or lean.
7) An electronic level should be included to disable the "MAF trim" should lambda fall below a preset voltage - some where between 0.4-1.0v.
8) If the lambda falls below the preset level, it will turn off the Map trim.

What do you think - add more facilities?

Richard - that sounds brilliant. I take it you would wire the activation via a flow sensor?

I'll try and get that minimum AFM voltage trigger point for you, but the filter leak got worse so I have switched it off until I have a moment to sort that. I'll let you know the voltage as soon as I can.

At presesnt independly with WI. Just to test the unit with the WI injection on only and cross your figures that it is not blocked.

I will make provision for a WI flow sensor input. It will be so cool to trim the fuel according to the water flow rate, At present, you have a system1s - pehaps we just put in a flow sensor even it reads one flow rate? Things will be simplier when DDS3 is added so we can set up a window area to detect the correct water flow.etc.

Useful to have some MAF voltage so I can design-in the potentiometer adjustment range. I think anything from 3-4psi onwards will be fine - possible on fourth or fifth gear.

Are you referring to the second water injection filter?

Richard

Excellent water injection pictures. Ensure you use plenty of loctite on the nut.

You must have a very good camera.

Richard

No - I still haven't fitted it - it has been a bit hectic over xmas. I should have a chance to do this on Saturday.

UPDATING:

1) Build into a box about 100mm x 50mm x 25mm
2) Upon switching on (manual switch) the MAF signal go through a number of modifications.
3) The "start trimming voltage" reaches a user preset voltage (~3-5V)
4) Once the voltage is reached, the MAF voltage will start slopping downwards (less upwards).
5) The "amount" of slope is user adjustable, limited to ~20%.
6) A 0-1V Bargraph display monitor the lambda value. (splice into the existing sensor). It is not perfect but you should see rich or lean.
7) An electronic level should be included to disable the "MAF trim" should lambda fall below a preset voltage - some where between 0.4-1.0v.
8) If the lambda falls below the preset level, it will turn off the Map trim.
9) System can be triggered by the 1s's manifold pressure switch
10) System also can be triggered by the a ground signal (opposite to 1s)

Here is an attempt on a breadboard:



http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gall...cb-index-s.jpg

Richard - looks very impressive, but way over my head. I'll try and get those figures to you asap. Thanks. :)

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gall...b-index-s2.jpg

It all started out as a simple MAF voltage output trimmer...

then

I thought it would be nice to see what the lambda voltage is doing at the same time....

then

Why not use the lambda voltage to put some safety control automatically. So when the lambda valve drop below a certain level (too lean), it stops trimming the MAF.

then...

Since I have a few some more processing power, why not make a mAP sensor clamp so that the ECU do not see extra boost dialled in.

then...

Making the system automatically switch in when water is being sprayed .

then.... so on

Richard

Way over my head at the mo. But i really hope it works well. It certainly looks like you have put lots of time, effort and knowledge in to the bit of kit. nice one . :D

When thing quieten down a bit herte, I will ask Mike to pay me another visit and get this unit installed.

If it works as it suppose to, I can offer this unit as a package with WI.

Richard

Sounds like a stupid question, but what will it do? My car is identical to Mike's and as you may remeber my WI is non operational at the moment until I deside what to do with it (still not sure about the intercooler spray).