Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

The site Richard has created here is the BEST forum based resource for water injection, the quality of posts and people who contribute far exceeds to quantity you will get in other places, so make yourself at home and search around across all of the sub forums, you will find a mountain of information.

The coils I use are made by Dynatek and they are predominantly used on motorbikes, snow mobiles, water craft, etc. My experience here again has been copied allot across the world and as such you get quite a few people now gagging over the Dynatek CDI's and their coils.... it again is but one of the many products I trial and am happy to pass on my experience for everyone else to benefit from :)

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Don't worry about me copying your design as I will be sticking to the DlI system for some time until I can afford something as spectacular.

I have found the thread on pre turbo injection. I have read all of the first 20 pages only another twenty to go!!!!!!

What are your thoughts on this? Obviously I see that you point your WI nozzle at the centre nut if you turbo bur is there an ideal distance for this so that any slight large water droplets don't hit the fast moving outside edge of the inducer?

Also tour air feeds in from the side from your cold air antake box, does the incoming air not essentially push the water flow from the centre of the wheel to slightly off centre?

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

At what PSI do you start injecting your water? As a few of the guys don't inject until high revs high load(psi) by high I mean after 10 psi and upwards although I don't think that this is too high.

I am also debating as to wether to use an intercooler on my car but I mainly think I should as it will be a road car and if I'm cruising on the motorway off boost then I wouldn't have any WI cooling effects if I was using your boost switched WI?

I think I have just answered my own question haven't I?

Removing the intercooler would only be good if it was a drag car only so as to reduce the lag created by the intercooler.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

They are all good questions and all I can tell you is my own findings, keep in mind I am only one person, you will get lots of other experience and opinions etc from others.

In my system I run a pressurised air feed system, its totally sealed and rams air into the turbocharger helping its efficiency at any speed especially over 80kph (its ram air feed is located in the nose of the car) *pic's earlier on in the thread* This increased compressor flows at moderate to high vehicle speeds. SO far as my air feeds its a theory I applied to pre swirl the air into the feed of the turbo mouth, it works well. For the injector placement genearlly the further away the better it is, it just depends on your vehicle instal and what you can do in the room you have. Heaps of fitment locations do work *you can see my web site for all kinds of examples*

On the topic of intercoolers, I have ALWAYS run them, the combination of the two systems seems to work best especially when you factor in total system fluid use you would need to run to repliacte the mass air flow into the engine without running one, thus I recommend to people to use a mid sized intercooler and piping, the lag induced by such a system in minimal V's the positive mass flow increase due to improved charge density increase it offers, and the amount of WI you need to use is what I would class as NORMAL as an added benefit. This is very important when you are talking using WM50 boost fluid as you can still keep conventional tuning settings and most importantly ability to switch from WM50 back to pure water (for competitions that require you to only use water) or if simply for availability or lack there of. You WONT be able to do this if you run no Intercooler due to the qty of fluid you will need to run. So the system overal is not as flexible. My philosophy is to make a system that is easy and adaptable to any reasonable environmental condition or sitation a driver will face in the real world. I'm sure you could do it in any extreme you wish to explore, remember mine is but one solution that works for me and most peoples situations.

I run water injection from 8psi onwards, the engines just run much better on water injection than without, the point at which I turn it on is not so much arbitrary but a consideration of atomization quality and also total fluid use and a variety of other factors to do with tuning and so on which I dont care to elaborate on too much in a public forum which over 12,000 stalkers have kept up to speed with to date lol. Though I think this is enough information for you and others to read :)

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Got Wing !

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2...g2622spdon.jpg

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Current engine bay set up with Capacitive Discharge ignition system, been running 1.8bar boost last few weeks.

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2...g2594spdon.jpg

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Looking good Peter.

What size is the inlet on your turbo?

I will email you privately soon as I want to order a WI system from you. : )

Would you be willing to share the dimensions of the WI mounting you have as I want to try something similar in my rx4 as I will hopefully have an Abundance of space for a proper air filter system.

I will understand if you tell me to stick it where the sun dint shine though. Cheers.

Car still looking good. How much rubber are you going through on 1.8 bar?!!!!

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

4" inlet on the turbo.

You get the full specs on the tank when you get the kit :), I'm more than happy to talk to you over E-Mail when your ready not a problem at all.

The rear tires are 255 wide good street tires, they do get pretty shredded in 2nd gear so I leave the traction control on to limit tire wear, 3rd gear now they are having a hard time also, but generally now I just leave the car in 4th gear (from 80kph to ~240kph) it has more than enough torque *red spread of power* to pin you back at any revs/speed, using third to overtake is pointless as its over in less than 2 seconds and you are either about to fly off the highway! or literally drill into the back of another car :) ............ it's a great little car !!!!

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Get On It!

:-Oc==3

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

She has passed the 1.8kg/cm durability tests with flying colors :) & the performance is amazing. We have the new settings at 2.10kg/cm (over 2 bar gauge, 300kpa ABS, 30+psi in the old money)..... there is still plenty of margin left in the set up to run 2.5kg/cm in street trim but as before will run at the intermediate step to prove it rather than do a one off power pull BS type sheet posting as is the norm among most kiddies shops or internet experts ;)

The acceleration is gag factor to the max! it's not scary but I tell you it does make your arsehole pulsate in mild fear if you have not sampled this kind of thing recently.......... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) !!!!!!!!!!!

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

This just keeps on getting better and better!

Very nice car and that engine bay stays like new always!!!!

No subsititue for engineering and pure hard work and never ever giving up!
 

Yes it's amazing, what seemed like a limitation a year or two ago today is the new base to work from. It's one of those things though where you do need years to prove the concept like I am doing here (various technical challenges & base line calibrations aside) nothing much in the hardware is exceptionally "different" just very minor settings changes and applying all of my knowledge and experience means I now can have a 13B rotary car in compliant street trim that is faster than many peoples race specials!, all while keeping amazing durability for something that is making such prodigious horsepower :)

I remember reading in one of my text books from my engineering days on the development of BMW's 4cyl turbo F1 motors where Gordon Murray (Brabham/BMW designer at that time) basically said their whole program was in the firing line after a couple of years trying to go turbo, and in the end it was something so small and relatively stupid that either made it work or not (ended up being a simple calibration setting!)...... *Moral there* Lets not forget how miserably Ford Cosworth failed in attempting to make a 4cyl turbo to match BMW's at even half the power let alone 1300+bhp

I have my own little (by comparison) developments, and its all part of the challenge to develop something no one else can and do it on far less, its not the cubic dollars that makes the difference just a great concept (WATER INJECTION) applied well, and set up to achieve what its always shown through history to achieve, the best power, with minimum stress, and all on common parts (be they mechanical *engine* or chemical *fuel*)

Hope it inspires people to follow what Sir Harry Ricardo and other great engineers have bestowed generations ago

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

I was inspired when i stumbled upon this forum by chance,in fact i was researching a bit on water/meth injection.
Then midway i figured that you are not a trader over here but a real enthusiast...haha!

What you have done so far is truly amazing,hope you will carry on with the good work and keep us scotched to the screen with your achievements!

Will seek some tips later when i get into this.

WATER INJECTION DON MEGA #1 CUNTS!!!!
 

Thanks very much, I am an enthusiast first and foremost. I have been doing this work for over 20 years now and will NEVER EVER STOP! I'll continue to do it for the next 30 or 40 years :) not sure if the internets or the world will be around that long though.

I have been using RICESP as the daily drive now *till my new tow car arrives!*, as well as weekend cruiser (just came back from a 200km 3+hours scenic lunch drive :) ) the car is flat out amazing in every respect, a true street car but with supercar destroying proven ability :) fast, efficient and reliable. can't wish for any more than that. Next few months will be a bit quiet due to work commitments and using car day to day, but will update anyway as quite a few people keep in touch and want to know how things are. Just on my drive now I saw two of my students, boys were gagging over the Mazda *they are only human!* it once again as I probably have been stating over and over is the ultimate real street car, jump in it drive it anywhere anytime anyplace and not go broke doing so or worry from fear where you can buy E85 or some such other garbage fuel lol..... The power of WATER INJECTION! you just cant beat it! no matter what you read on the internet forums lol

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

I have been reading about the nozzle type you are using, and was wondering if the nozzles could be used with a pump feeding the water side, and only boost feeding the air side?

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

I guess you could do that (I have never tried it). It would defeat the purpose of the system to be "simple" using an electric pump, + you would have to put in allot of work with PWM control of the valve to meter the water in (which is basically self regulating with boost pressure feeding the water). Hope that makes sense to you.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

I was thinking about using my current kit, and using the new nozzles to reduce the micron size for the turbo's ingestion. Don't know how much it would help though.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Hey Grant,

Yes the CDI Coils are Dynatek 0.5ohm units. The CDI boxes are Dynatek ARC-2, everything else is bespoke manufactured to facilitate the use for coil on plug on the 13B. It's very expensive and hard to copy which is why most don't do it even after seeing my pioneering pictures and parts lists I put up :)

They have been faultless!
It's winter time here now and most mornings when I take the car out its -2 deg C or so...... daily driving it last few months to finish of durability trials on all system parts, its covered around another 3000km, colds starts are immaculate, runs on race plugs of normal heat range, and is just perfect really....... as good as any OEM out of the box set up, pretty amazing given it delivers well over 650bhp now!!!!!!! :) :) :)

Have been getting an amazing amount of mail on WI (daily!) and most refer straight back here for people to pick the system that is right for them and also to learn more about the best technology ever invented for the internal combustion engine. Was a dream of mine to share this knowledge one day and that day has well and truly arrived! I suppose you cant deny the power of water injection when you see the results of cars like this and others (across all fields!) that have run it since 1930 :)

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Water Injection - The next level :)

Have been very busy developing and testing more aspects of the water injection rocket that is RICESP :)

Can't divulge exact specifics *sorry* but a "quantum leap" in power is not a bad way to describe it, still on normal petrol and WM50. All same parts as listed to date, same engine untouched in last 2 years! over 12,000km logged on it to date.

The WI system is the same but with calibration changes to suit the very high power output increase over the last lot of shared tests. The only extra's are a change of secondary fuel injectors and fuel pressure changes to feed the engine more pump petrol ........... of which it needs quite allot at maximum rpm and throttle.

Next year will be even more again, But will have to install the upgraded drive line to cope with the immense RICE RACING power!!! Once this is underway I'll release this current specification on here for all to read and benefit from, trust me it is pretty amazing, mind boggling, warp speed, gag factor acceleration!!! all only available due to water injection technology

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Nice "RICE RACING".
All that water ends up turning too "steam" If you start with that first with right flow rates the opposite will happen when consitering power loss with higher humid and temps.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

CCome on then Peter you tease, what boost are you running now, so much so that your having to replace the gear box!!!

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

In direct drive you can run basically any power you like as you are not using any gears :) so 4th is not a problem, the others can be as you rightly suggest but you just have to limit the power to suit.

I'm busy working on my new project, so once that is a bit further along all of the info on RICESP will be freely available to all to copy :) as always

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Been super flat out last few months to post back here, sorry boys and fans :)

Have some time now (quieter near end of year thankfully!) to work on new things in the Mazda world so RICESP will get some more upgrades and development work, allot to do with new settings on the water injection system, when I get closer I'll post up some pics and new information ;)

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Some more pics of my ride ;)

*Doing some more WI system developments over the next year, RRWEP140 set up tested/installed and ready to go! :)*

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1...cespricefj.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5...cespricefj.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/953...cespricefj.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/297...cespricefj.jpg

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

In preliminary tests of the latest 2012 WI system specification, starting off on lowest boost setting of 1.45bar Intake Air Temperature is around ~35 deg C (~18 deg C ambient test) in 3rd and 4th gear. Exhaust Gas Temperature is around 790 deg C to 800 deg C (around ~70 Deg C drop to previous settings on same boost pressure.

These are noticeable improvements over the last WI settings

Only possible on full CDI ignition system (don't attempt/try this with any inductive crap box system!). Also running a different specification spark plug of higher heat tolerance, to date its working fine in repeated cold start tests and short engine run tests (real world driving) not fouling at all, and burning any ratio you throw at it.

Doing full recalibration to suit the new set up and will test all aspects and post back as time allows :)

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Well well, new settings are showing potential :)

Low Boost setting 20psi or ~1.4bar (3rd gear RR std runs)
90kmh -140kmh = 2.32 seconds ! and 2.33 seconds ! (2 x separate tests)

EGT peak = 880 deg c to 870 deg C

Other info to down load off the ECU but will post it up later........

Car is stupid fast & effortless with new WI strategy, and will only go faster on higher boost settings.
More info (snap shot) added:
RPM 7700rpm
EGT 878 deg C
AIT 36 deg C to 40 deg C
Ambient temp 18~20 deg C
Boost 142kpa 1.45kg or 20.6psi
TIP 18.6psi
TOP 3.3psi
FP 65.8psi
Turbine rpm 107,166rpm
AFR undisclosed
WI undisclosed
Ign timing and split undisclosed
Inj duty 54%

On board power meter showed 379rwkw, car is very quick for a true road car, too fast really to be used properly without tripling any posted speed limits LOL. Anyway its got a great base to finish off the very high power/high boost work I was doing through this and last year, with much more favorable long term operating parameters on the engine and turbocharger. Next stages are back up to 1.80kg boost, 2.00kg, and 2.20kg and 2.45kg, keeping in mind the above is only on ~1.45kg to 1.5kg *waste gate spring minimum setting* :)

Non of this is remotely possible without the power of water injection :) all mind you on a near 3 year old over 20,000km daily driven engine that has NEVER been touched! unlike some who have gone through 100k worth of engines and tunes lol.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Did some more fine tuning overnight (still to the 1.4bar map) and it is just f7cking retarded how fast it is going!@

90kmh-140kmh in 2.09 seconds and 2.18 seconds!@ Unbelievable !!! < (ECU records not VBOX!)

The new WI settings are really sensitive to overall fuel mixture and spark lead, just by trimming out a few RPM points only to the target AFR it just ignites the little red rocket! and it full on fly's !!! It's pulling over 0.610 G in 3rd gear. Almost do not need the high boost settings :)

Now I have the mapping over RPM 100% sorted at low boost, easy to extrapolate to higher boost settings :) need to sharpen up the reflexes to match the car now, sh7t happens so fast you have to be on it ......... WI never ceases to amaze me, and I thought I knew it all.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

This is my "fuel cooler"

Fuel goes in the bottom fitting, out the top fitting, in my water injection tank is a allow fuel coil, it stabilizes the fuel temperature, after a 30 minute drive the tank is still cold to touch, I have included a log of the fuel temperature on a highlighted 3rd gear 100kmh to 150kmh run in 2.291 seconds! 20 deg C ambient day yesterday at this test run. Fact V's Fiction lol

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7...1cdisystem.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9...2cdisystem.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7...ttuned20ps.jpg

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Doing the boost map learning process today on a little test drive, was very hot, official temperature was 27 deg C but it felt more like 30 deg C where I was testing. Anyway at a peak of 1.56bar (1.72kg/cm) boost in 3rd gear @7800rpm it showed 41 deg C ! & 880 deg C EGT....... this is unreal, the car accelerated just as fast as what it did on a 18 to 20 deg C ambient test.

At one point 20 minutes further on opening up the throttle the IAT registered 19 deg C!!! never ever had this before so the new rate of WI is effective and whats more very combustible with big gains in performance and safety factor.

Once the boost is set at the 1.85kg/cm setting across the rpm range I'll re-test at standard temp and pressure day to see how much better it is in like conditions.

GAG FACTOR TO THE MAX!!!
 

1.85kg/cm or 26.3psi is unbelievable on the new set up :)

3rd gear in dry is unusable, as boost comes on it just overpowers the Kumho KU36 tires, leaving some nice marks down the highway :)

4th gear at higher speeds is just unreal, I have power in the mid range rpm's like what I was using before at peak rpm! it accelerates amazingly well in 4th and 5th gear, in 3rd though full throttle cant be used, either turn on traction control or use lower boost settings.

In the new year I will get some more applicable tires to allow the full power to be used and comparisons to be made to other tests posted up. It is a mega metric arse load of fun fun fun :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

O.K. Remember pump petrol/gasoline here only ! ***OFFICIAL VBOX test results***

90kmh-140kmh = 2.26 seconds!
100kmh-150kmh = 2.39 seoconds!
100kmh-200kmh = 6.25 seconds!

Still on old tires, and showing about 24psi boost on the VBOX, and ~330rwkw VBOX POWER

Tested at 1320kg run weight and 25 deg C ambient day, still doing boost learning procedure so there is a bit more in at this level and fuel mixture set rich to be on safe side.

Fact V's Fiction

Will put up some VBOX graphs when I get them off the lap dancer top

Here is the graph of the 2.26 second 90-140 test :) this car has a *massive* power band, not normally seen on genuine 13B road cars of this level of performance and speed!@ the word "response" does not do it justice! It builds one bar of boost at around 3400rpm in a transient test, and near its maximum boost setting well before 4600rpm and it does it even in the low gears which only take a second or two for 8000rpm, its fantastic..... best road car set up ever !@
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1341/226secvbox.jpg

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

As always, your performance tests are relentless and very informative.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Can only try to emulate the great work you did posting on that 760rwhp WI Skyline Richard ;)

My car is getting too much for "regular testing" and it has exceeded the capacity of true street radials of normal tread wear 180 rating. I have some better 100 rating tires of a bit larger width on their way. Then I can look to do some more tests on the power of water injection in the new year....... till then I think I have deserved a well earned Christmas break :) and RICESP will be on "smut cruise" duties down the Beach over summer :)

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

"Got Grip C*nts" Ho Ho Ho Merry Christmas!

275/40/R17 Toyo R888 GG compound

Fits like a finger in a bum.... :)

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3...tgripcunts.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/3...tgripcunts.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8...tgripcunts.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3...tgripcunts.jpg

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

looking good peter. should see those acceleration tests come down a few tenths with all that grip.

Can your WI system be used on any ECU?

Do you think you will keep increasing the boost pressure? or are you going to stop at a set amount? or is down to when you start breaking things, as always happens when gaining in HP.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

Hey Mate,

My WI system can be driven off any ECU that has a PWM table and switching conditions table settings (or you can use it stand alone obviously).

I did a quick test yesterday after recalibration of my MAP sensor to match the Blitz I Color and on board internal MAP sensor in the ECU. Had to re tune the car! but basically on 180kpa gauge ~ 280kpa absolute (26.3psi or 1.85kg/cm) its accelerating harder & faster than ever before! its just unreal to me......... the thing that really gets me is I have a full computer full of logs and tests from this car, its just flat out unreal how many tests I have done with it over so many kilometers covered and YEARS!. I think as I wrote a few pages ago what I am doing now is what I thought was a limit before, and this is like the first boost control setting! :)

I have a local dyno competition in February that I was going to run at last year (remember it got flooded out!) and I will just leave the car as it is on 1.85kg/cm as its proven and I have lots of information from my power measures of it and see what its like on their system.
In the cooler months (remember its middle summer here) I will run out to the higher boost settings I experimented with last year. These will only be able to be used in direct drive in 4th gear on the OEM gearbox, I will run it to 2.45kg/cm or about 35psi gauge boost pressure all indications are it will do it easily as the new water injection system specification by theory and practice to date is allowing such unheard of numbers without raising a sweat. :)

Once there that is it for this set up. I have no more capacity in this turbocharger nor many other components, but honestly what it does now on 1.85kg boost setting is totally amazing (its proven to accelerate faster than any super car you can buy, and has an acceptable top speed of 210+MPH!!!!), I say again I have NEVER tested nor seen presented to me in any legitimate way ANY RX7 in the world running a 13B engine of any configuration on normal pump petrol that will accelerate like what I run everyday........... and the proven world leading durability I have proven here is unmatched by anyone period.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

I wanted to share with you this Grant (and other keen followers)

I have tested hundreds of RX7's and tuned and modified all of the best ones in this country and beyond :) I have on file every combination of RX7 you can care to imagine and like I detailed in earlier pages what is most interesting to compare is how RICESP goes V's stock versions.

Well its even more interesting comparing the common std BPU (basic power up) FD3S!. These typically consists of fitting a Apexi Power FC, a full 3.5" exhaust system, a better intake and upgraded stock mount intercooler, still on stock twin turbo system. All of this results in around 230rwkw as measured on a dyno dynamics or around 190rwkw real power as measured on a VBOX :)

Simple physics dictates if you have the same car shape, same car mass, same gearing! to do any speed increment in half the time and half the distance you need exactly double the power. Well after checking at least half a dozen cars I have measured on my own test track and even on closed circuits when looking at a common 100kmh to 200kmh pull from 3rd gear to 4th gear... RICESP does this test in just over half the time & half the distance required by a BPU RX7!!!!! < this is fucking unreal!!!! as anyone who knows a BPU RX7 is not a slow thing at all. Typically the acceleration I get in 4th gear is higher than what you get in a BPU RX7 in 3rd gear (with exact same gearing and tires size btw).

This same theory and reality applies to any other speed measure you care to do analysis on, my famous "bullshit stops test" 90-140kmh in 3rd gear http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-ii...ing-tuning.htm is a classic dreamer from reality destroyer. Anyone can make a peak BS power figure but to average nearly double the power from 4700rpm to 7700rpm in this classic test really does separate the men from the Gen Y brainless know it all's LOL.

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

here is some more angles of RICESP, the new rear tires look SICK! I love the way it sits. And the mega motor set up, cant stop looking at this, hard to believe something so stock looking (for a genuine SP!) makes so so much power!!! :) From concept to proven performer :)


http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/172...815donmega.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1...740donmega.jpg

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6...719donmega.jpg

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/624...748donmega.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/958...709donmega.jpg

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

great stuff Peter, once my car is running (RX4) i cant wait to order a WI system off you and start building on my cars performance. I am starting off at just 14 psi with a Borgwarner s366 turbo, but with the WI in place i want to run the engine up to 2 bar, however this will be over time and i will learn how to make my car gain the full benefits of WI!!

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7
 

So what is the next step in WI development? are you going to change to a larger turbo and RR street port (as you said 2 bar is about the limit where the turbo can cope) and develop a race car instead of the awesome street rotary that you have built?