Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

[masterp2]

If you can design something that will evacuate excess, and not reduce pressure in the inlet tract, that would be interesting. Anything that sucks out water, is going to cause a performance degrading pressure drop I think. Also, can't have unfiltered air infiltration when no water is present.

Sorry i am not more help.

[Roverdose]

just inject into the centre of the turbo.

Drew

[dsmtuned]

Originally Posted by masterp2

If you can design something that will evacuate excess, and not reduce pressure in the inlet tract, that would be interesting. Anything that sucks out water, is going to cause a performance degrading pressure drop I think. Also, can't have unfiltered air infiltration when no water is present.

Sorry i am not more help.

I was thinking that the suction would only happen when you let off the gas, as to not greatly affect the MAS "counted" air mass during WOT.


-Craig

[skiericski]

WOW! I made it through all 13 pages! Great forum here!

Now this forum doesn't apply to me very directly, since my compressor is oversized for the boost/flow I'm currently running. However, my engine setup would be perfect for pre-comp injection, hardware-wise. I currently run a very large K&N cone filter(~6" diameter and 9-10" long) attached directly to the turbo inlet(4")

I got to thinking of all the ideas I've read here. If I had an injection nozzle in the end of the filter(pointing directly at the impeller) then any spray hitting the walls would be hitting the filter element(read swamp cooler filter) and since the filter has a large step where it necks down to the turbo it'd be about impossible for non-atomized water to flow down the turbo inducer(besides the small amount that hits it directly)

So what I'm saying is that you should all ditch your MAFS, buy a Megasquirt kit(or other MAP-based system if you like wasting money) and put a large cone filter directly on your turbo inlet.

Anyhow, thanks for the extremely interesting reading!

BTW, what ever happened to the MX5 tester guy? As has been said before, a few simple tests would be worth more than all 13 pages of this thread!

Edit: Pardon the obnoxious first post :wink:

[dsmtuned]

I've been thinking more seriously about how to mount a WI nozzle aimed into my compressor blades.

How do you guys think a nozzle and the hardware to keep it in place will affect the tornado like flow of air entering the turbo?

It seems like you would not want to disrupt this swirl as that would make the turbo have to work harder to suck air in.

Any thoughts?


-Craig

[TELVM]

An interesting article on pre-compressor WI for gas turbines:

http://www.alphapowersystems.nl/NewOrleans.pdf

"By injecting atomized water in the compressor of a gas turbine the parasitic work of the compressor is reduced due to quasi-isothermal compression.

Approximately 2% water to the mass flow results in a significant increase in the gas turbine?s power output.

... round-the-clock water injection could cause problems with erosion, water separation etc. The droplets must therefore be small.

The water to be sprayed is pressurised and heated up. Then, as it spouts out-of a swirl nozzle, explosive flashing takes place. The result is a surprisingly fine hot plume of tiny water droplets, ready to evaporate as they enter the compressor.

By using a swirl nozzle and by supplying pressurised hot water, the combination of spraying and flashing results in droplets roughly ten times smaller in diameter and thousand times smaller in volume and weight than the droplets of a normal swirl spray device.

The amount of heat extracted from the compressor air by evaporation is much greater than the amount added through the hot water spray. As a result, the temperature drops and the compressor discharge temperature is reduced. This results in less parasitic work of the compressor ..."


Seems the higher the pump pressure & the finer the atomizing, and the warmer :shock: the injected water, the best.

[dsmtuned]

I searched more about these "SwirlFlash Nozzles" and it sounds like you have to pressurize the heck out of the system to get the droplet size they have. 40-150 Bar!! :shock:

Here is a quote:
-----
The patented SwirlFlash? technology is based on a simple but robust principle. A liquid is pressurized (typically 40-150 bar), heated-up to about 200 C and fed to a swirl nozzle. Due to the swirl movement the liquid (for example water) spouts out of the nozzle in a typical spray pattern which has the shape of a cone. The droplets size is about 25 micron. However, when the water is significantly above the boiling point at the ambient pressure, it starts boiling violently (flashing). As a result each droplet of 25 micron explodes in a thousand fragments, each having the size of about 2.5 micron. The typical spray cone of a swirl nozzle changes as a result of partial flashing to a parabolic shape. The ultra fine spray ensures almost instant evaporation and cooling.
-----

Here is where it was:
http://www.alphapowersystems.nl/swirl.htm

I apologize if this is what is contained in the pdf file, but the computers over here in China (travelling now) will not let me open it up. :roll:

Has anyone used these SwirlFlash Nozzles?

-Craig

(edited for clarity)

[PuntoRex]

Quite a while ago, someone has posted this "SwirlFlash" here somewhere (sorry I don't remenber who).

I think the key is not at the nozzle, but the pressure & temp. These two are also the hardest portion for us to deal with. :cry:

And the whole system is definitely bigger & heavier than what we are using now. That would be a bad thing. Maybe sometime it's the difference of doable & mission impossible. Especially in a crampped engine bay like mine.

[Psi-Fi]

Originally Posted by PuntoRex

Quite a while ago, someone has posted this "SwirlFlash" here somewhere (sorry I don't remenber who).

I think the key is not at the nozzle, but the pressure & temp. These two are also the hardest portion for us to deal with. :cry:

And the whole system is definitely bigger & heavier than what we are using now. That would be a bad thing. Maybe sometime it's the difference of doable & mission impossible. Especially in a crampped engine bay like mine.

not so undoable... run pure water in your radiator fluid and run a 30 lb cap. tap the aquamist feed from the radiator so now you have heated water 180-220 degrees f and its also pressurized to 30 psi above atmospheric. to fill the system just keep the overflow can filled to spec.

[PuntoRex]

That's really a good idea!

But (a big one), it's too "agressive" for a road car, isnt't it?

I don't need anti-freeze in where I live, that's alright, but I do need anti-corrosion & lubrication from the coolant.

Seeing rust in the injected water would freak me out.