Injecting prior to turbo comp' impellers

[JohnA]

I see that the AFR at high revs hovers around 11:1

Have you tried to go leaner? I got most of the gains when being leaner than 12:1, all other factors being the same.

Also is it running race fuel? If so, the gains from these four nozzles might be more modest, especially if the FMIC is really good.

What sort of charge temps does it register after a few seconds at full boost?

[Richard L]

Originally Posted by JohnA

I see that the AFR at high revs hovers around 11:1

Have you tried to go leaner? I got most of the gains when being leaner than 12:1, all other factors being the same.

Also is it running race fuel? If so, the gains from these four nozzles might be more modest, especially if the FMIC is really good.

What sort of charge temps does it register after a few seconds at full boost?

At the time of the test, we have no information of the actual WI percentage to fuel so we were a bit careful until we have calculated the correct afr.

Knowing the sto for methanol is 6.6:1 and gasoline 14.7:1, the correct a/f ratio of the mix has to reflex the mix, is that correct?

We will resume the test as soon as time permitting. This time we will plan it first compared to tuning the engine for race in 12 hours ahead. The next test will all the temperature sensors installed and logged. At preset I have a few big projects to complete.

The entire test was run on pump fuel - race fuel was not permitted on the race.

[JohnA]

Originally Posted by Richard L

At the time of the test, we have no information of the actural percentage to fuel so we were a bit careful until we have calculated the correct afr.

True, but at 50% methanol the Water/Fuel ratio has to be over 20% for the shift in the stoich point to become an issue, right?
Also the more the alcohol percentage, the less the atomisation deficiencies of petrol, and the cooler the burn, so one can go even closer to stoich at full boost.

The entire test was run on pump fuel - race fuel was not permitted on the race.

Pump fuel, nice, so we can see some of the 'octane boost' effects in action!

[Richard L]

When time permitting, I will get a set of logged data published here so you can see the effect.

Please don't treat the published power output is the final result - there are lots and lots of testing, furling and timing optimisation to be done yet.

I was merely show the dramatic effect on the a/f ratio with just water alone - still puzzled.

I am hoping to see a lot more gain form now on - since we have the use of a dyno and a twin pump aquamist system. Almost unlimited supply of methanol, nitromethane etc - just needs to find time.

Watch this space.

[JohnA]

Originally Posted by Richard L

...Watch this space.

[Richard L]

Originally Posted by JohnA

I getting to like this picture a lot.

Nothing to report yet.

[espritGT3]

[quote="Richard L"][quote="JohnA"]I see that the AFR at high revs hovers around 11:1

Have you tried to go leaner? I got most of the gains when being leaner than 12:1, all other factors being the same.

Richard,

Of course it will vary the amount of fuel and water being injected, but on my personal car toggling the WI on and off results in about a 0.04 increase in lambda (~0.6 A/F), and I'm running nowhere near 20% water/fuel.

WI appears to have a significant impact on lambda readings. I mention this only to point out that the Skyline may not be running as rich as it may first appear.

It would be interesting if you could perform a similar test to gather some data on the WI/ effect on lambda readings for comparison.

Mike

[espritGT3]

[quote="Richard L"][quote="JohnA"]I see that the AFR at high revs hovers around 11:1

Have you tried to go leaner? I got most of the gains when being leaner than 12:1, all other factors being the same.]

Of course it will vary the amount of fuel and water being injected, but on my personal car toggling the WI on and off results in about a 0.04 increase in lambda (~0.6 A/F), and I'm running nowhere near 20% water/fuel.

WI appears to have a significant impact on lambda readings. I mention this only to point out that the Skyline may not be running as rich as it may first appear.

It would be interesting if you could perform a similar test to gather some data on the WI/ effect on lambda readings for comparison.

Mike
espritGT3

[redvictor]

this is a superb topic with excellent info.I have some questions.Firstly i will introduce myself.
I have been running a 1550hp nitrous 600ci V8 in a class called Street Eliminator.Best time and speed in the 1/4 was 8.2 at 177mph in a 3000lb street legal car.Bearing in mind we have to use Optimax(with a commercial booster) and block treaded tyres. We have used the ERL system on the car but found after a while we didn't need it with the nitrous as detonation wasn't a problem(even with 600+ nitrous injected in 2 stages). I am now putting on 2 x 88mm turbos on a 572ci V8 that has to be run in the same class. We will be shooting for 2000+hp on Optimax and tetraboost. I am also going to use an air to air cooler because of events like the king of europe which has a 20min turn around and it would be impossible to use ice water in an air to water system. I will be removing the port WI system and moving the nozzles around.i also have a plate under the throttle body with 4 nozzles in that i will keep.these are .8mm. the nozzle system uses .4mm x 8.I will also inject a couple of .4 nozzles after the intercooler.Now,the pre turbo injection seems like a fine idea but what nozzle size would i need,and how many? How far away from the compressor are you injecting from? straight shot at it or against the tube wall?Also has anyone injected WI just inside the intake pressure port of the turbo? I know from previous experience that a 50/50 mix of water/methanol works great injecting with an rpm switch,and a sureflo pump and solenoid(which i still have). Also bear in mind that the water injection system would only be on for about 10seconds max in the burnout and low 8 to high 7 sec in the run.
Your input and info would be highly appreciated on this one.
BTW,a piccy of one of the turbos for the install...and yes,Holset have sized the turbo for the application,and are giving me their valuable input...
ANDY FROST.

PS,could someone post a pic of a pre turbo nozzle placement?

Visit us at www.redvictor1racing.co.uk

[JohnA]

Injecting straight into the 'eye' of the compressor is not a bad way to go.

PS
that's a small mug you've got there (or is it a big turbo? hard to tell, lol...)