Do I have a faulty relay? ::fixed::

[bananas]

I was following the priming instructions, but I do not get power to the pump. I checked the connections with a multimeter. First of all, I have verified my ground and I have 12v from the battery. At the relay connections, I have verified 12V from the battery and 12V from the controller box while the jumper is in SYS position. The output of the relay shows 0V, but I believe it should be 12V when the signal from the controller box is 12V. Do I understand this correctly?

See this youtube video for a demonstration of my measurements: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61NKGOpdBtk


I purchased 2 kits during the GB, one for myself and one for a friend. With your input, I will try using my friend's relay (he is not installing his system for another week or two). Any other suggestions? Thanks!

[Richard L]

For the relay to work, the thin blue wire must be grounded. You can use a short piece of jumper wire to ground to fire-up the relay.

You can also activate the spray and pump by using the onboard jumper link (TEST). Make sure the level switch is disconnected or fill the tank up first.

[bananas]

For the relay to work, the thin blue wire must be grounded. You can use a short piece of jumper wire to ground to fire-up the relay.

You can also activate the spray and pump by using the onboard jumper link (TEST). Make sure the level switch is disconnected or fill the tank up first.

I'm not sure I understand... everything is wired per the wiring diagram, and I see only 2 ground connections; one is off the pump and the other is off the controller. The trunk harness is connected to the controller, which is powered up. The INJ jumper is moved to SYS.

If I understand correctly, you are telling me to temporarily connect the blue wire to ground to activate the relay. Is this instruction for priming only? How will the relay function in normal operation if I remove said temporary ground? I assumed the ground would go through the harness and controller box.

[Richard L]

The jumper wire is only for a quick test for the relay. I watched your video and saw the blue wire is not grounded so I suspect the pronblem may lie in the harness, RJ connector or the controller.

So I suggested manually testing the relay first. One step at a time.

[bananas]

The jumper wire is only for a quick test for the relay. I watched your video and saw the blue wire is not grounded so I suspect the pronblem may lie in the harness, RJ connector or the controller.

So I suggested manually testing the relay first. One step at a time.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll give that a shot tonight!

[bananas]

Thanks for the clarification, I'll give that a shot tonight!

Well it was user error, and now I feel stupid. I think either the wiring harnesses were loose in the controller box, or I may not have had the gauge turned on. The relay works fine; I got the pump primed today.

[Richard L]

Now I can go to bed.

Pictures please!

[bananas]

Not the best install, but here are some pikatures: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=12429#post12429


On to the next question/issue... I am not seeing as much flow as I expect. I have my turbo set to wastegate pressure at the moment, 15psi, which is approximately 50% IDC (I have 4x630cc fuel injectors). I turned the threshold all the way down (12%) and the gain at first to default 1:1, then all the way clockwise, which I believe is +50%. With the SC cranked all the way to the right, I show no more than 3 bars. I'm using the 1.0mm jet with a .7 restrictor in the FAV. The flow sensor is securely clipped to the only place it fits, on the outlet side of the FAV.

Also, when I short the SYS jumper, the gauge does not show any flow from the flow sensor, even though I can see a nice conical spray from the jet.

When I primed the pump, it was not "silent" as the instructions stated it should have been. It sounded like my HFS-1 always sounded. It's loud enough to notice when the motor isn't running, but not loud enough to hear in the cabin, when the motor is running.

[Richard L]

The installation is good especially how you managed to tuck the pump into a cramped space.

The bar display on the gauge has to calibrated by using the SC potentiometer. Show three bars is about right. The default full scale display of 8-bars (12 o'clock) is set for 3x 1mm jets.

Put the SC to about 2-3 o'clock, you should se 5-6 bars. If you wish to have more flow, use two jets.

I am not sure why the gauge did not show bars under the manual test condition. Please take a picturte of how the FAV is installed.

It is difficult to gauge the loudness of the pump, but if it jumps around, it is not well primed. I guess your pump is well primed by now.

[bananas]

The bar display on the gauge has to calibrated by using the SC potentiometer. Show three bars is about right. The default full scale display of 8-bars (12 o'clock) is set for 3x 1mm jets.

Put the SC to about 2-3 o'clock, you should se 5-6 bars. If you wish to have more flow, use two jets.

My potentiometer settings are as follows:

SC: Maximum (fully clockwise)
Threshold: Minimum (fully counterclockwise)
GAIN: Maximum (fully clockwise)

With these settings, I see the 3 bars. With SC at 12 o'clock I see one bar only.

I ran out of water on the way to my office this morning, but I'll fill her up over the lunch hour and do some more tests with a higher FIDC%


FAV location pics:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=13&stc=1&d=1269532178


http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=14&stc=1&d=1269532178

[gengo]

My pump makes a cyclical clicking/tapping noise whenever the injection is "on".

[Richard L]

Sounds like one of three internal valves has trapped air. Use a short length of 6mm hose, feed the pump outlet back to the tank. Power up the pump by putting the system on test (make sure the "INJ" is unlinked first). If possible, hold the pump and rotate it slowly. Ensure the outlet port is at the highest point to encourge the trapped air to escape.

[bananas]

Sounds like one of three internal valves has trapped air. Use a short length of 6mm hose, feed the pump outlet back to the tank. Power up the pump by putting the system on test (make sure the "INJ" is unlinked first). If possible, hold the pump and rotate it slowly. Ensure the outlet port is at the highest point to encourge the trapped air to escape.

Thanks for the advice, I'll give that a try tonight. Two unfortunate things about my pump placement: 1) the outlet is lower than the inlet as shown in the pictures. 2) It's difficult to get to; bumper cover must be removed.

[bananas]

The air seems to have worked its way out on its own. I'm now getting full 8 bars at redline. The SC adjuster doesn't seem to have much effect on the number of bars reported, it always starts at 2 (depending on the threshold I chose) and goes up to 8 at redline. Maybe I misunderstand. I assume SC fully counterclockwise will cause fewer bars to illuminate at the same actual flow, while fully clockwise would cause all 8 bars to illuminate at much lower flow. That hasn't been the behavior for me. No matter how I have the SC adjusted, I'm showing 2 bars rising up to 8. I'll post a video later.

[bananas]

The air seems to have worked its way out on its own. I'm now getting full 8 bars at redline. The SC adjuster doesn't seem to have much effect on the number of bars reportedMore egg on face... I had mistakenly left the jumper on the IDC test setting. What I was seeing was not aquamist flow, but instead FIDC, if I understand correctly.

At least my idiocy is preserved in this thread for posterity's sake :) I'll try the previous advice later.

[Richard L]

Let me know if things returned to normal after removing the jumper link from ther FIDC.

Easily done - I did the same the other day durng my ongoing development work. It was weird.

[bananas]

Let me know if things returned to normal after removing the jumper link from ther FIDC.

Easily done - I did the same the other day durng my ongoing development work. It was weird.

All red herrings aside, I finally found the root of my problem tonight.

After doing a bunch of tests (pumping from water jug to water jug, reservoir to water jug, water jug through FAV to water jug, etc), I eventually decided to try a larger restrictor in the FAV. When I pulled the line off the FAV inlet, I noticed a small nylon hose shaving was plugging the .7mm restrictor inlet. Took the shaving out with a needle nose and I now seem to have full flow! The flow seems to fall off at higher RPMS (gauge goes from 2 up to 6 bars or so, then drops back to 3 by redline) but I'm going to confirm that tomorrow. I think I'm going to try non-progressive mode and see if the flow meter reports consistent X number of bars. Thanks for all the help Richard, you rock.

[Richard L]

Well done on finding the blockage. This is unusual as the in-tank should not allow a debris of that size to get through.

I cannot rule out there may be further debris somewhere. Can you reverse the flow...

1. putting 6mm pipe into the flow sensor inlet (change fittings over)
2. Activate the system and let water pour out the valve
3. Hopefully it will flush out any debris trapped inside the vave.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/flush.jpg

[bananas]

Well done on finding the blockage. This is unusual as the in-tank should not allow a debris of that size to get through.

I cannot rule out there may be further debris somewhere. Can you reverse the flow...

1. putting 6mm pipe into the flow sensor inlet (change fittings over)
2. Activate the system and let water pour out the valve
3. Hopefully it will flush out any debris trapped inside the vave.


I think maybe the shaving somehow fell into the nylon hose when I was cutting it? I'm also going to put in a HFS-1 style inline filter on the 6mm feed. Should I go with 806-255 or 806-257? (30 or 100 micron).


I removed and checked all fittings for additional debris and everything was clear. I reversed the flow on the FAV and let the pump run for a minute or so. Then, I removed the .7mm restrictor in the FAV, I get lots of flow. Can you explain the purpose/function of the restrictor? I thought the jet size and line pressure sets the effective flow of the system? Should I try the .9mm restrictor? How does the system behave with none at all?

I have 4x630cc injectors, and run 25psi boost with 50/50 meth/water so I originally chose the .7mm restrictor and the .9mm jet.

[Richard L]

Thanks for the update.

I don't think you need to put another line on the inlet side of pump. The in-tank-filter should do the job properly.

It is good to know the system is now free of possible debris.

The job of the restrictor is make the delivery as linear as possible. The FAV is capable of delievry in ezcess of 1500cc/min. Without the restrictor, the valve tends to over inject by about 50-10% at the lower end of the flow curve. It is not important if you don't start spraying at 12% IDC.

Quick calculation of your set up:

2520cc/min of fuel at 25psi,. 20% of M50:50 flow should be ~500cc/min. Your selection of 0.9mm jet and 0.7mm restrictor is spot on.

[daymean]

hey, i am having a similar priming issue as posted here, what small blue wire (as mentioned in post #2) needs to be grounded for the pump to prime?

[Richard L]

NO, you don't need to ground the blue wire to activate the pump, use the "TST" jumper link. Do not run the test fom more than 10 seconds at a time or you will risk overheating the inline valve (not design to be static).

Grounding the thin blue wire at the relay end is only for diagnostic work. Grounding the thin blue wire energises the 40A relay and power-up the pump.

[daymean]

OK i am having a problem that the pump does not prime when i put the jumper over sys...i have checked and power is getting to the relay however no power is getting to the pump. The power wire to the relay is getting power...12v (verified by the multimeter) however the red wire that goes to the pump is not getting power...do i have a bad relay?

[Richard L]

Can you tell me if you are using conventional or direct injection mode? What car is yours?

Can you check if the thin red wire is getting power (on the 40A relay)?

[daymean]

I am using it in an evo8mr jdm - so conventional mode

thin red wire from control box to relay is getting power....
the red wire from 40A relay to pump is not getting power.
thick red wire from battery to relay is getting power

[Richard L]

It might be a silly question, did you put 15A the fuse in?

[daymean]

Yes i did.
Talking to Jeff @ Howerton we realized that the blue connector is wired incorrectly...it is supposed to be red yellow blue black however it is red blue yellow black.
I sent a pic to him and he most likely will forward to you.

[Richard L]

I was wondering if both Jeff and I were talking to the same person. I will be sending you another blue harness.

[daymean]

Thank you Richard, i would prefer it be sent via Jeff, as he will explain to you.
If in the meanwhile I cut and switch the yellow and blue wires from the blue harness near the relay, will that allow the system to work temporarily or will it cause any damage?

[Richard L]

It will be fine. I will send it to jeff, it will be full harness with thick red wire.

You can change the blue and yellow wire around to temporary making the system to work, no damage will be done.