HFS3 initial setup query post install

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Got the kit installed this weekend but had no time to try tune it.It's the kit specifically for the VW/Ausi FSI system and I am using it on my K04 G5 GTI DSG. I am also using twin 0.7mm nozzles with a single 0.9mm valve. I know I am being quite vauge but think you will get the just of what I am trying to say.

The light(inside the controller) showing the injector on does flash quite fast and as you increase the revs it flashes faster until it looks solid and glows bright. So looks like it is working.

The small on off gauge is currently installed and the main flow gauge is on order for next months update.

The gauge is orange and then glows green once ready and is solid.

However even at 26psi boost it doesn't flash at all so am hoping it just needs tweaking ?

Any thoughts ? :confused:
I presume it is not injecting anything yet ?

On Wednesday we have a public holiday here in S.A. so will take her on the road and get her tuned up if possible.

Is it just not kicking in due to having the default settings and need to make the settings more aggresive ?

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Nobody ? Anything ?:(

[Richard L]

Hello playback,

I can only work on the technical support before work and after work as work is extremely busy. I was unable to access the forum.

Can you confirm where S.A is? Can you tell me if you have Modified [dioopne] any links on the underside of the circuit board?

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SA is South Africa where the world cup is being held :cool:

Sorry but I am not sure what you mean by "(dioopne) any links on the underside"

[Richard L]

My bad typing. Modified was the word I tried to type. S.A, it is.

Have you contacted pregga or preggie? Both of them have some experience with this car as I try to work it through with them.

For direction system, you need to use the yello wand red wire of the grey connector and link PWM+ to PWM- at the bottom of the circuit board.

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They are actually my tuners from RFC and I used there recommended installer.

It might be working fine. But havn't had a chance to check it yet. Car will hopefully be at there shop on the weekend and they can check it out then.

A boost pipe came off in the meantime so they will instakk a new longer one and can check injection at the same time ;)

[Richard L]

May be send me a picture of the undwrside of the circuit board and see if thay have configured the system correctly. Different models of direct-injection car has many variations feven from the same manufacturer.

Can you tell me the volatge reading of test pin16 at idle, cruising and WOT. Simple voltage test would be seeing a voltage spike when blipping the throttle.

Ask the shop to contact via email richard@aquamist.co.uk Unfornately I am away this weekend.

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Thanks for the pointers.

I will finally be installing my problomatic pipe on Saturday morning and afterwards will be doing my W/I test and setup.

Will let you know how it goes ........I'm not excited but it's only 2 more sleeps ;)

[Richard L]

I look forward to your update.

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So back home...It's been a loooong day.:rolleyes: A 1hr job turned into an all day. Was meant to just install new pre throttle body pipe and then start setting up water install.

8am..Drive to mates house. 9am have everything stripped . 10am...many swear words and new pipe installed.Test water system before on throttle pipe using jumpers as decribed to prime pump but not disconnecting the 6mm hose before the ......thingie goes tpo the small cable :o
No joy... Pump doesn't seem to do anything. Light does green on dash but does not blink.
Then jumpers back to stock.Tried full anti clock on threshold and full clock on gain setting still nothing even if car if blipped light does not flicker gauge or board .

Got tired so plugged it all together filled up with straight water.

Try start car again and find battery so flat car doesn't even start to swing :roll:

11am move pipe to stop hitting cooling fans ....nothing heavey duty cable ties can't do :p

1am ... Battery finished charging and went for a test drive with pump off.
No problems, pipes not working loose no annomolies so getting happier:)

2pm. Went logging. pump off. Ambient was 27c intake temp 39c . 12c above ambient. Not too bad without meth. Max timing pull -7.5c.

Turned on pump stock 12oclock both threshold and gain. 2 runs and light on dash does not blink.


Couple more runs and finally once threshhold at full anti clock and gain on full clock only rougly at 17-18psi does dash light kick in and strat flashing green ...yay

After many runs doesn't use much water but it is going down though.

Logs on final run .Ambient still 27c. Intake 31c so 4 degrees above ambient. Getting there :roll: Timing still pulling -3 at max so better but obviously not great.

Unfortunately I am away tomorrow but will try prime the pump again next weekend but doubt it will make a diffeance think it does have water and is primed. Just doesn't seem to be adjusting the way I expected. My mate with same K04 setup and this kit also same installer has his setup on 11am threshold and 2pm for gain.

I don't think this is a Aquamist problem but more likley something not correct on the original install that was done even though the installer has done many W/I installs and one hfs3 already. :cry:

Just wish I could get it to work correctly...Just need time I guess.:cry:

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May be send me a picture of the undwrside of the circuit board and see if thay have configured the system correctly. Different models of direct-injection car has many variations feven from the same manufacturer.

Can you tell me the volatge reading of test pin16 at idle, cruising and WOT. Simple voltage test would be seeing a voltage spike when blipping the throttle.

Ask the shop to contact via email richard@aquamist.co.uk Unfornately I am away this weekend.

Will try get this info for you. Do u mean pic of the underside of the aquamist board where u make the adjustments ? :o

Test pin 16 at idle... um where would I find this pin ? And how could I measure the voltage on it... VAG Com or a multimetre ? :o

Thanks again for the help.

[Richard L]

A digital multimeter is perfect.

Here is a diagram for configuring the HFS-3 for various FI/DI engine. YOu can should be configured to B-4 and D-4. Please check the under side of the circuit board that has already been configured.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/H3-DI.gif

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Going through to Preggie and Praga's work shop tommow @ FRC Racing. Really hoping they find with the autoelectrician something small or an installation issue.

Hopefully will get sorted and I can let you know what it was.

Printer that pic above and too it down to the car and it looked like the board was set up in the same was as it should be.

Will keep you posted.

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Just at FRC work shop now and they found that a cable that was running off of the ECU was not connected correctly. have now run it from a different location.

They tried one of the controllers from Prega's car in mine and it did the exact same thing...not work


System started working straight away like it should.

They just neetening it up again and will drive it and let you know how it goes.

Glad the worst is over with :)

[Richard L]

Thank you very much for the update.

It is difficult for me to help without the car in fornt of me. I would nbe grateful If you can ask Prega to take some picture of the with the wires spliced, I can them make a proper diagram to for the future.

Things are looking up.

Richard

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Only saw your response just now. Car is going in again next week for the proper gauge to be installed.....The big one with flow meter. Will get them to take the pics then.

In the mean time. Car is running. Had both settings thresh and gain set at the 12 o'clock position. Car idled fine. dash gauge doesn't flash yet .... good.

Currently running 100% water.

Noticed thateven when just cruising at 120km/h or if slowing down and using the gears the water injection is constantly on and flashing(injecting)

Then on the first pull the car has big skips and misses and feels like nothing wants to happen at all like it's flooding something but then once it clears in a sec or 2 it pulls like a train again.

Did try adjusting the threshold and the gain but just seems to be kicking in under no load which is odd.

If I have the light on the dash not flashing and is just solid green then it accelerates fine with no issues and the flashing kicks in and car pulls cleanly with no misses.

Will start doing 50/50 meth water on the weekend but was puzzeled by this current new issue.

Any thoughts ? What am I doing wrong ?

By the way this is the 3rd waterinjection system I have owned and all have been Aqumist and never had these problems before.. Just trying to say I am used to setting these up but this one is testing me a bit ;)

[Richard L]

Do you have a digital voltmeter?

The basic wiring for the IDC signal appeared to be working as design. As direct injection systems have many variations, we now need to find tune the incoming signal. At present, it appears the IDC signal is a bit on the high side.

There are 30 test pins on the HFS-3. Pin16 confirm what the HFS-3 is seeing. 0-5V = 0-100% DC. If you can tell me what voltage at pin16 we are reading in the following conditions:

Idle ........ ? volt
cruising ....... ? volt
WOT ....... ? volt

Alternatively, you can put the jumper link to "FDC "and read the Fuel duty cycle % from the gauge.

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Got given a Voltmetre toay :twisted:

Will try work out how to use it correctly and go find this "pin 16" :D

Will let you know. Probably will only happen around the weekend.

Will let you know .

Thanks again for the help :)

[Richard L]

I have just been in touch with Morne, working on the 2008 BWA and start to make way to understand the Bosch DI system.

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I have just been in touch with Morne, working on the 2008 BWA and start to make way to understand the Bosch DI system.

Yup..Spoke to him at lunch time and seems like we are making some headway.

Will hold off sending in my car to get the gauge installed until this has been resolved. Sounds like by the end of the comming week we should be in business.

I think my car is trying to keep me at home trying to watch the world cup.
This morning driving with water injection off. Car had just warmed up. Had an Aston V8 next to me and a Range Rover Supercharged pushing me to go from behind.
It was roughly 12c so nice and cool. Went to manual mode pulled off went to 2nd and then planted it for the first time today midway through 2nd.....and I get quite a bit of wheel spin and a nice sensation of been pushed in the seat as she scrabbles for traction....3rd and start pulling the competition as they now know I am serious.....And then ......pppppsssshhhhhhhh. Stupid new throttle pipe blows off .....grrrrrrrr.

Well the soccer was pretty good :cool:

[Richard L]

We did not have enough detail information of the VW GTI direct injection before the HFS-3 was designed. But with Morne's help, it would be long before read the signal probably.

It was a great Match between Germany and Argentina!!!

Once we have the spray configured, you will have a lot more fun in all weather especially in summer time.

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Yup... Morne is great and very helpfull. Used him for almost all my stuff that I havn't done myself. Knows his stuff :D

Looking forward to the progress :cool:

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So it sounds like the problems may just have been wiring related.

Morne currently has the car so hopefully will be able to sort it tomorrow.

Will let you know ;)

[g60 golf]

Hi Guys.
Came across this when i was running google search and saw the foroum.
Well this issue is something else.
I was told use the map to start injection and comp for the injection but i dont believe it is the way to go.One must get the idc correct then one can add the mps for correction.

Richard i will get the voltage readings for you on sunday as i will be busy with the BWA as both cars are the same now in terms of running much better with the mod u gave me to do but the lift off the gass and it injects is a problem.

I will get the readings and then we can take it from there.
The fsi injector cycle is strainge that both wires have same voltage [+_].
I will not be at work Monday and Tuesday so pls contact me on the mail i provided.

Can one not use the green wire and step up its signal as only when one turns up the threshold will it fire the injection?

[Richard L]

I wonder if you have a captured waveform of the FSi signal.

I notice that there is MAF sensor (yellow wire) to the ECU,. This signal is pretty close to the engine load except this does not contain accell. and decell. enrichment compensation/correction as the IDC signal. But is ios far better than boost only (single dimension).

Lifting off is a strange one, I hope it is reflected on the pin16.

One other useful measurement, can you put the meter on both wires and tell me if the voltage increase with load (blipping the throttle)?

The green wire is pretty fixed for the conventional fuel injection system, detecting a switch-to-ground signal (saturated). Feel free to try, both inputs are protected up to 600V.

[g60 golf]

Hi Richard.

I spoke to a buddy and he says they tested the injector voltages as they wanted to do something for a management system and he says the injectors can peak at a huge voltage.
I will be checking tomorrow with Riaz and i will try hook the green wire and map sensor to see what it does.I dont want to use map sensor.
I have a feeling the injectors are staing open [high current] when one drops a gear for a few seconds to see what the driver wants to do accel or deccel.Thats why the Water Meth thinks it is under load.When im back at work i will see if i cant use the dso cables on the vas to see the injector wave pattern for you too.
This is rather intresting to see how your system works and the fsi injectors work.
I will feed back via mail to you.
Thanx for the help.

[Richard L]

The direction injection drive voltage varied between 2V to 80 and spikes up to 300 volts.
Every DI drive singal is slightly different from each other. Possibily the taken most part of our circuit design work, particularly on the input stage.

We have more or less summed up on most cars with the exception of the VW golf. We did not have any problem on their tdi (PID). Once we have established the pin 16 voltage, I will have a better understanding of the signal.

As regarding the FSI engine. Audi on partucular, the DI algorithm on the A3 fsi is again slightly different from the A4 fsi. This is most annoying for us. We are workign on the next generation of "all-in-one" detection circuit and should be ready soon. We are talking in week rather in months.

We shall see what more new surprises are installed for me when I get the pin16 voltage from you in the next few days.

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Any updates ?

Think Morne said new boards are comming. Any ETA yet ?

Dying to get this system working correctly :D

[Richard L]

I believe we are shipping between one to two weeks.

[g60 golf]

Hi Richard.
The boards are here and i will be getting them Monday.
Thanx for all the help and putting up with all my questions.Please if you ever need help with the VW gve me a shout.

[Richard L]

Try the red and green wire of the green harness. If it works well it will be great for all the future DI systems.

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Looking forward to installing on the weekend :)

[Richard L]

I will keep an eye on your post.

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Funny that I found my old post…

12years later. Same car. Same problems still on this WI.

Car is using the “new” board you previously sent.

Out of interest.
Can the hfs3 be upgraded to hfs4 ?

Maybe just a board change ?

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Funny that I found my old post…

12years later. Same car. Same problems still on this WI.

Car is using the “new” board you previously sent.

Out of interest.
Can the hfs3 be upgraded to hfs4 ?

Maybe just a board change ?

So turns out that as mine was such an early HFS3 board it simply couldn't do IDC efficiently.

Converted it across to MPS and seems to be working well. Time will tell.

[Richard L]

Funny that I found my old post…

12years later. Same car. Same problems still on this WI.

Car is using the “new” board you previously sent.

Out of interest.
Can the hfs3 be upgraded to hfs4 ?

Maybe just a board change ?

You can purchase the HFS4 controller.