New HFS-1 system not working

[blk01s4]

Hi everyone, first post here so be gentle :)
I purchased an HFS-1 system awhile ago and never had time to install it. This recent holiday I got everything in and it seems to be working in test mode. I tried to following the directions '5 easy steps to set it up' and Im stuck at one part.

It says to activate the system manually (I used the TST jumper to do this) and dial the 'SC' until it reads about 6 bars. .. Awesome, I tried doing that no matter which way I turn the SC dial it reads the same the entire time. What could be causing this not to work correctly? I am seeing the bars move across when its in test mode so this seems pretty simple and I can't see why its not working. Any guesses?

[Richard L]

which version DDS3 is your HFS-1? V8, v8a, v9 or v10.

It is labelled on the top of the junction box

[blk01s4]

I dont recall but, just out of curiosity why would that matter? I'm goin down to the Garage to see what version ..

[blk01s4]

v10 ! ........................................ .....

[Richard L]

OK, great.

Just to recap, verything is working except the gauge reading is not responding to SC adjustment.

What size jet are you using?

[blk01s4]

OK, great.

Just to recap, verything is working except the gauge reading is not responding to SC adjustment.

What size jet are you using?

Correct everything works nothing happens on the gauge when dialing around the SC setting.. I am using dual .7's

[Richard L]

Can you physically blow through the flow sensor and tell me if it registers something.

Also, does the "S" led lights up on the gauge?

[blk01s4]

well its registering something now, you want me to blow thru it still ? Yes the "S" lights up

[Richard L]

I would reversion th wediretcion of flow to help clearing some debris that may be trapped inside the sensor.

You can take it apart and re-assemble it quite easily, follow the instuction below:


1. Undo the 4mm hose.
2. unscrew the 4mm fitting.
3. with a 13mm spanner on one end, avoid spinning the metal tube
4. You should now see the inside of the flow sensor tube.
5. With a 1/4" flat blade screw driver, unscrew the plastic scroll
6. At all time press reasonable hard to avoid slip and distort the scroll.
7. Once out, turn the FCM unside down , the little turnbine should fall out.
8. Clean and examine the inside of the tube, if necessary undo the scroll on the other side.
9. Reinstate the assembly as follows
10 make sure the tube is vertical.
11. Drop in the turbine andf ensure iot is centrally located.
12. Still keeping it vertical, screw in the plastic srcoll untiollit bottoms.
13. Un-wind 1/4-1/2 Turn
14. Shade the sensor, clicking sound means the turbine has clarance as it shuttles back and forth.
15. Blow through it, you shoudl heat the turbine spinning.

Re-asesmble and retest.

[blk01s4]

ok ill do that

[blk01s4]

ok did everything you mentioned I can blow through the tube slow and fast and see bars across the gauge change depending how hard I blow. However when the system is reassembled and in 'TST' adjusting SC from the guage makes no difference on the bars displayed on the gauge. Is the mainboard or gauge defective?

[Richard L]

OK, please check the voltage of the top four pins on the right side of the junction board.


It should read something like:
(relative to ground)

+12V
0V
0.5V
2.5V (when SC is set to 12-o'clock)

Also tell me the serial number of the flow sensor.

[blk01s4]

Ok new update, you know that black cable that goes between the board and the gauge? Initially when I hooked this system up it was like loose the gauge would turn on and off by itself. The vendor that sold me the system sent me a replacement black cable and now the guage stays on all the time. Except that new cable must have a problem also because like I said the SC setting didnt do anything when making adjustments. I plug in the original black cable and now suddenly the SC dial works. The original black cable still has the problem with the gauge turning on and off. So out of two black cables both are bad ! Argh. I could recrimp it again, although it does appear to be a larger connection then RJ45.

I guess the question is does Aquamist have a lot of problems with these cables causing the gauge to flicker on and off?

Now with SC set to 6 bars as instructed and WL set to full counter-clockwise and WH set to full clockwise and the system activated with TST advancing WL clockwise never distinguishes the 'B' light. I can turn it in back and forth it does nothing B light stays on.

[Richard L]

Until I know the serial number of your system, I am not sure if your gauge version.

Qestions:
1. Does your have have a RJ-45 socket at the back or a 2.5M trailing black cable
2. The flicking is not not be due to the RJ-connector. The earlier version of the DDS3v10 board is sensitive to noice at the +12V supply. Anyway, this is gone with the new cable.
3. I think we should fix the cable problem first (the new one).

It is quite easy to have a partial short between the strands of the flat black cable, could be badly crimped or flexed too much during installation.

Anyway, perhaps it is better to make a new cable, just cut off the two plugs and crimp on new once. Make sure the plug/plug orientation is as following (colour is not important)



http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS6/RJ45-gauge.gif



And check for damages:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/HFS6/conn1.jpg

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/HFS6/conn2.jpg

[blk01s4]

S/N is 4125

Qestions:
1. Does your have have a RJ-45 socket at the back or a 2.5M trailing black cable
Both it has what appears to be an RJ45 and a trailing black cable

2. The flicking is not not be due to the RJ-connector. The earlier version of the DDS3v10 board is sensitive to noice at the +12V supply. Anyway, this is gone with the new cable.
I dont see how this could be because I can wigle the cable and cause it to happen. If I hold the cable at a certain angle it works all the time. problem was solved with a new cable but like I said which brings new problems along with it.

This cable is terminated with RJ-45 connectors right? Im not 100% sure because they look wider then normal.

[blk01s4]

After close examanation of the new cable there does appear to be damage from the crimping tool. I did count the wires/pairs and I will recrimp an RJ-45 to the end of the cable and report back.

[blk01s4]

Awesome, after recrimping the cable that had the bad end now it works I can dial the SC around and the bars move. But, still no dice on moving the WL to get the "B" light to turn off once SC is dialed in. I noted the version of the board I have is V10-L. Does the version of the board I have support doing this? The instructions I have say V10-W on them so im starting to wonder.

[Richard L]

The HFS-1 has been discontinued for over a year, I was surprised to hear that you only got it as a new system (as title says).

V10W (web acquired) means the insrtruction is downloaded from internet and re-printed. Please take a picture of the board that has V10L printed.

Which one of our dealer did you buy the system from? By the way, the WL and WH has nothing to do with the cable. Please let me have the serial number of the flow sensor so that I can track back the origin of your system, a new system should be have this happen.

[blk01s4]

The HFS-1 has been discontinued for over a year, I was surprised to hear that you only got it as a new system (as title says).

V10W (web acquired) means the insrtruction is downloaded from internet and re-printed. Please take a picture of the board that has V10L printed.

Which one of our dealer did you buy the system from? By the way, the WL and WH has nothing to do with the cable. Please let me have the serial number of the flow sensor so that I can track back the origin of your system, a new system should be have this happen.

Well I bought it about a year ago and it was technically 'new' because it was in the box. I bought the system from EPL in CT. I posted my serial number in a few posts up check it out it should be there I can see it in the post.

Is the setup with WH and WL suppose to work like the manual says ? I will take a picture for you when I get home. I suppose if there is something wrong with the mainboard I could always buy the updated one I can't imagine the board being much money. Its my own fault for letting it sit in the box so long.

Thnx

[blk01s4]

Im having problems with my Camera .. Did you see my S/N above? Also still wondering why I cant distinguish the 'B' light when adjusting WL .

[Richard L]

Got it, 4125.

The "B" or "high boost enabled" only comes on where all the conditions are correct, ie, the water flow is inside the WL and WH area after triggering.

The instruction may not be as clear on the user manual, basically you need to set the first to read about 5 bars under boost conditions.

WL (set windwow low limit) ..... fully counter-clockwise = 1 bar display, fully clockwise = 5 bar display
wH (set window High limit) ..... fully cloackwise = 8 bar, fully counterclockwise = 5 bars

If you set WL and WH at 12 o'clock, your window width is approximate 3-7bars, if the indicated bar goes outside those window limites, the failsafe will trip and reduce your boost and "B" goes off. The "B" stays activated as long as you are inside the window during spray.


Does this make any sense to you? If you are not sure, set the WL and WH at 12 o'clock and tell me if this works.

[blk01s4]

Cool thanks .. here is what I discovered is a problem with the entire setup. Lets say that the conditions aren't met and that the B light goes out. The system continues to spray while the engine is not under boost and almost chokes my car with water. Anyway to get the water to STOP spraying when the B light goes out and the conditions are not met ?

[Richard L]

100% correct!

[blk01s4]

So how do I get it to stop spraying when B is not lit :)

[Richard L]

I need to explain this.

The system doesn't stop spraying because the "B" goes off.

It is quite the reverse ...

The "B" light goes off when the system is not spraying properly. ie - not spray or too much spray.

When the system is spraying the correct amount after trigger, the "B" light will continue to activate. If something is wrong the "B" will go off.

[blk01s4]

I need to explain this.

The system doesn't stop spraying because the "B" goes off.

It is quite the reverse ...

The "B" light goes off when the system is not spraying properly. ie - not spray or too much spray.

When the system is spraying the correct amount after trigger, the "B" light will continue to activate. If something is wrong the "B" will go off.

That I understand but when the B light goes out, from my recollection it cuts boost. That being so since there is no boost it continues to spray which is a bad thing since it chokes my engine with water. Or do I have this all wrong?

Then again if its properly dialed in this wouldn't be an issue but Im just trying to learn all the in's and out's of the system.

[Richard L]

the reason for the "B" light going out is because there is no spray. I think you are looking at this the wrong way round.

If the spray recovers, the "B" light will re-activate, allowing high boost.

[blk01s4]

For the sake of a mental excercise is there any way to get the spray to stop with the B light turns off? Leaving all other known variables and what ifs out. Is that even possible?

[Richard L]

The "B" light has nothing to do with the spraying.

I am go and give up soon, I can't get this across to you.

[Richard L]

I spoke to Jeff Howerton this, he suggested that your engine is not happy after a failsafe trigger.

Can you tell me how you wire up the failsafe to reduce boost?


Back to the "B" led.... what actually happen in real time:

1. When the system under flows, it means "zero flow", becasue it is an "full-on" or "full-off" system Boost drop and no methanol is sprayed anyway

2. When the system over flows, it has to be a cut/leaky hose, there is no other way. In this case, the system may not spray any or minimal methanol into the engine.

One way to stop this happpening is by triggering the system via boost. Set the Trigger point above wastegate pressure. So when the "B" goes off, boost drops below triggering point and spray stops.

Does this make more sense and a viable way to stop spray?

[Howerton Engineering]

I think the best way to achieve what you want is what Richard proposed above. Use the system to trigger at a boost setting above the wastegate pressure. This way if you get a failsafe the system stops injecting.

On the other hand, when the system is setup properly, if the "B" light goes off dumping boost, the system is not spraying properly.

[blk01s4]

I spoke to Jeff Howerton this, he suggested that your engine is not happy after a failsafe trigger.

Can you tell me how you wire up the failsafe to reduce boost?


Back to the "B" led.... what actually happen in real time:

1. When the system under flows, it means "zero flow", becasue it is an "full-on" or "full-off" system Boost drop and no methanol is sprayed anyway

2. When the system over flows, it has to be a cut/leaky hose, there is no other way. In this case, the system may not spray any or minimal methanol into the engine.

One way to stop this happpening is by triggering the system via boost. Set the Trigger point above wastegate pressure. So when the "B" goes off, boost drops below triggering point and spray stops.

Does this make more sense and a viable way to stop spray?

I have a valve in my car that comes from the factory called the N75. I have the failsafe connected to this solenoid. Whenever a failsafe occurs I get wastegate setting pressure (7psi?) Before I had the system setup correctly it would trigger failsafe because the flow indicator was maxed out. I believe the HFS system thought it was overflowing. I am activating my system with injector duty cycle not boost. Activating on boost sounds like a better idea, but since I already have it wired in Im going to try and make it work on IDC first.

As a side note, and please don't take this personally I believe a lot of confusion comes from the way the installation/owners manuals are written. Since its written in British english its a bit different at explaining things then what we are accustomed to here in the US. I believe if an outside source was to write the manual everyone would be better off.

Thanks for all your help! :cool:

[blk01s4]

I think the best way to achieve what you want is what Richard proposed above. Use the system to trigger at a boost setting above the wastegate pressure. This way if you get a failsafe the system stops injecting.

On the other hand, when the system is setup properly, if the "B" light goes off dumping boost, the system is not spraying properly.


Thanks yea I mentioned that above, if the system is setup right B will always stay on.

[Richard L]

Always set the bargraph to about 5 bar at full flow, so it won't trigger the "overflow" (WH). I will look into a more user friendly style of writing manual. I read it through, it is quite discontinued, doesn't make good reading.