Roots blower mounting suggestions

[Dust]

Friend has a Pontiac Grand Prix, with an L67, 3.8 V-6 with M90 roots blower. Here is the engine bay.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/toastemcutlass/100_0705.jpg

Choices
1. Add phenolic spacer after throttle body (maf is in throttle body)
2. Move MAF and tap intake pipe
3. Add phenolic spacer after blower (There would be a lot of extra space)
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u233/minichopper6hp/DSC02161.jpg
This is the W/A IC, and the outline is the SC.

Needless to say, number 1 is the easiest choice. But, from reading, it seems that the amount of fluid would need to be greatly increased. Stock injectors are 36.5 lbs per minutes, but some sites suggest up to double "normal" amounts due to having to cool not just the air, but the whole supercharger as well. Can anyone comment on increased flow needs?

[Richard L]

Are you concerning about water mist may damage the MAF? (#2)

[Dust]

It's a hotwire, so yes, I would think that in the least the accuracy would be shot.

[Richard L]

I think #3 is your most logical location.

In cold winter conditions, there is a danger if you spray before the engine/supercharger is warmed up, rotor tip may be damaged buy the frozen water. I don't believe the rotor bearing is sealed.

[Dust]

How would I get through the spacer, and guarantee that distribution is good?

[Richard L]

how thick is the spacer?

[Dust]

2-4 inches maybe?

[Richard L]

Bore two 1/2" holes with a 7.2mm hole in the last 4mm. Tap it of M8 x 0.75mm thread.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/dust1.jpg

[Dust]

Thoughts on nozzle placement for distribution, or are those two what you are suggesting?

[Richard L]

Normally two is enough. The position of the bolts are not ideal. But you can try other positions. We can make wider spray angle jets at any delivery rate.

[Dust]

Sorry Richard, I was totally off. 3/16"

http://www.grandprixforums.net/phenolic-intercooler-spacer-12517.html

I thought i had read that they were IC thickness. 3/16" isn't gonna get an injector in.

What problems will a non sealed S/C cause for longevity. I don't think he will have a problem getting another one, and it might just give reason to upgrade to the Gen5 blower.

[Richard L]

I don't think there is any possibility on sandwiching in the jet.

What about the supercharger body?

[Dust]

This is the best pic I can find of the actual assembly

https://jonbondperformance.com/images/M90%20L67.JPG

Hole at the top is the PCV valve. I guess the simplest place would be below that

here is the Lower Intake manifold

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2562/3841/31404420021_large.jpg

Bottom of the SC

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/trannyman95/HoldenM90-1.jpg

[Richard L]

looks like post throttle is the only simple option. Unless you can tap into the side wall of the SC near the opening.

[Dust]

What kind of increase in percentage should be considered on flow if having to go through the SC too?

[Richard L]

I really don't know the answer. You need to plot the S/C case temperature drop against the water flow under different load and ambient. It has to be done case by case basis. Do you have a few minutes to spare?

[Dust]

I do, but he is in the US and I am still in Japan, wha tare you thinking?

[Richard L]

Data logging the drop in IAT (post SC)... Wmi flow rate against fuel flow. (rather boost, IAT(pre SC), RPM, etc).

[Dust]

L67 doesn't have a post SC temp sensor as far as I know. It's before the MAF in the intake tube.

[Richard L]

You can purchase a thermocouple + amp quite reasonable price now. output is normally 0-5V.

[Dust]

Just an update. I asked a similar question on a GP forum, and a member posted this pic.

[Dust]

Richard, what do you think of the mounting points? I worry about getting to the outside cylinders.

[Richard L]

what is the angle of the spray pattern?

[Dust]

I do not remember, but I wanna say 60 or 70 off the top of my head.

[Richard L]

I can not think of anywhere else better, given the shape of the casing. I suppose having a wider spray angle may be better, if this option is available.

[Dust]

I asked the nozzle vendor about spray pattern but haven't heard back yet. How wide are the older aquamist nozzles?

[99pgpgt]

Dust, I've been in the 3800 game for years.. Yes, that is where most guys tap into the lim for meth nozzles..

But many have just tapped into the top of the M90 case angled towards the rotors with success for years. From what some have recorded with tapping an iat sensor into the lim is that temperatures did drop pretty good from tapping the blower case itself.

But me personally have always suggested the lim to be tapped for the nozzles.

[Dust]

I was thinking a top swap parts purchase would be a good time to tap if I can find a low priced GT with HUD in good condition. Where did you mount your pump?

[99pgpgt]

we've always set the pumps up in the trunk. Tank went in the spare tire well or mounted on the back of the rear seat.

[99pgpgt]

I have a few huds laying around if you would want one. It can be swapped into a gt.

[Dust]

Isn't the 98-up washer tank 1 gallon plus? Cutting up the dash worries me more than a little bit. I had a 97 GTP with the removable washer tank, and water meth was a "cheap and dirty excuse for anyone that couldn't afford a "real" intercooler when I was a part of ClubGP. No one knew how to tune for it, and most people didn't have WBo2 which didn't help it's cause.

[99pgpgt]

Yeah, On my 99 it took probably a gallon and a half or more to fill the washer bottle haha

[99pgpgt]

97 and 98 washer tank is the same.

[Dust]

Everything else about the 97 seemed to be different than the rest. Do you know anyone that tapped the tank and used it?

[99pgpgt]

Sorry, haven't been on in awhile.

But no, I never saw anyone tap the washer tank for meth.

[Dust]

Wanted to bring this to the top as I bought a little GTP, the Ion Redline

It's got an LSJ, which is factory intercooled. Looking for spacers, and I have found 3

1. TB spacer - http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/510-LSJ-Throttle-Body-Spacer-Plate.aspx

2. SC/LIM spacer - http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/471-LSJ-M62-Spacer-Plate.aspx

3. LIM/Head spacer - http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/578-LSJ-Phenolic-Intake-Spacer.aspx

The 3rd choice would be the best i would think, but it would require 4 times as many nozzles, and the failsafe wouldn't be as effective as with 1 nozzle from what I can tell. Found out I can mount a stock Cobalt washer fluid tank with 1.3 gallon capacity without an issue, so I can have a separate tank for water meth fitted to the chassis for $30 shipped used or $50 shipped new.