BMW N55 electronic wastegate

[mdhollis]

Has anyone integrated the HFS-4 failsafe into the new electronic wastegate the N55 uses? Just wondering if this will impact the way the wastegate operates since it is very different from the traditional solenoid controllers...

[Richard L]

I never had an opportunity to work on this. This is getting more common on newer cars.
Do you have such a need to make it work with the HFS4? The new Golf Mk7 uses it as well as the M4.

[mdhollis]

I never had an opportunity to work on this. This is getting more common on newer cars.
Do you have such a need to make it work with the HFS4? The new Golf Mk7 uses it as well as the M4.

Hey Richard..

Yeah I am integrating the hfs-4 with a jb4 so I could use the jb4 for the low failsafe but I would feel better integrating the Aquamist failsafe for high flow. Basically if the 0-5v flow sensor input to the jb4 is at 5V, which would be the case if I had a leak, the jb4 will map high boost and timing based on the assumption that meth is at max flow. I just would like the added safety of the wh as well as using the jb4 to handle no or low flow situations...

I am going to try to loop it through. I'll report back on any issues...

[Richard L]

If you are willing, I am very happy to have a go making this happen. But it will require some work on your part, measuring voltage from the electronic wastegate control valve. I believe there are five wires (pin number as below):

1. Motor (+) ...... [3B/46] DME connector/pin #.
2. Power supply(+) ......[3B/32]
3. Power supply ground ........ [3B/34]
4. Wastegate rod position ........[3B/33]
5. Motor (-) ............[3B/47]

I think the DME controls the direction of the motor on pin 1 and 5. Receive in real time the wastegate rob position on pin 4.

But manipulating the voltage at pin 4, you can drop the boost without using PID control loop. We are not trying to control boost here.

The first step is to measure the voltage on all the pins at idle of just ignition on. With those information, I can start my work.

[mdhollis]

Sure I would be more than happy to help. I'll post up results in this thread

[HYDE16]

sub'd for awesomeness.

[mdhollis]

Richard,

Here you go. This is with the engine off but ignition switched on. Did you want the voltages with the engine running as well?

F22 M235i


1. Motor (+) ...... [3B/46] - white - 1.41vdc
2. Power supply(+) ......[3B/32] - light blue - 4.98vdc
3. Power supply ground ........ [3B/34] - black
4. Wastegate rod position ........[3B/33] - yellow - 0vdc
5. Motor (-) ............[3B/47] - white w/ blue stripe - 1.41vdc

I verified the wire colors at the dme and also verified this is the same numerical order on the connector that plugs into the waste gate.

[Richard L]

This is great information, voltage. Thank you.

It is good to know there is some variations on the wire colours but DME pin # is totally accurate. If you can read the same signals whilst the engine is idling, it will be great. I believe if we manipulate the voltage on pin #4, we can control or disable boost.


I managed to find this OE wiring diagram, project ontop a solid start.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/BMW/n55_wastergate.gif

[mdhollis]

Engine running:

1. Motor (+) - 0vdc
2. Power supply(+) - 4.98vdc
3. Power supply ground
4. Wastegate rod position - 0vdc
5. Motor (-) - 13.82vdc

Richard I was thinking to measure a voltage on the wastegate rod position the connector probably has to be plugged in correct? Do you need me to figure a way to do that?

[Richard L]

In order to read the sensor with the plug connected, you need one of these:
http://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html

Or strip the vinyl off.

I can send you a few if you pm me your address.

The information on the second voltage test is very useful. It showed the DME was reversing the motor to see if the pin 4 changes state, appeared to be a servo setup, looking for a feedback signal.

[mdhollis]

I have posi taps Richard that's a good idea. I'll get the voltage by the end of today

[mdhollis]

Engine running connector plugged in:

1. Motor (+) - 0vdc
2. Power supply(+) - 4.98vdc
3. Power supply ground
4. Wastegate rod position - 1.2vdc
5. Motor (-) - 0vdc

[Richard L]

Thanks for the quick update. This is good, all makes sense. It appears the rod is at 1.2V at idle.


I think the next steps are leaving the sensor unplugged, go for a drive...

1. Slowly squeezing the throttle, if there are no boost, you can continue to squeeze the throttle slowly until wot.

2. Again squeezing the throttle slowly, if it starts to build boost. abandon the test.

This test is to confirm at what rod position in relation to boost or no boost. Once we have established this, we can then manipulate the pin #4 signal and control boost.

Do you think this is a good plan?

[mdhollis]

Yup I'll report back with results

[Richard L]

We are getting quite close to take control of this.

[mdhollis]

We are getting quite close to take control of this.

Awesome!

Ok there is no boost. I make like 3 to 4 pounds at wot.

[Richard L]

This very good news.

Just to recap ....
1. The rod is at "low" boost position at idle after start up.
2. After unplugging, the position of the rod is not changed.
3. Upon driving under load, the boost remained low.


.

[mdhollis]

This very good news.

Just to recap ....
1. The rod is at "low" boost position at idle after start up.
2. After unplugging, the position of the rod is not changed.
3. Upon driving under load, the boost remained low.


.

Yup seems to be the case....

[Richard L]

I can think of two ways to controlling the rod length.

1. Positive biasing the rod position voltage at pin #4. to the control loop should extend the rod and lower boost.
2. Positive biasing the T-MAP sensor.
3. Combination of the above.

I will set out a method to make this happen. I notice BMS sell a male/female plug for this wastegate sensor. If you can purchase one of those, I will pay you back. This will make life a lot easier.

http://www.burgertuning.com/N55_JB4_upgrades.html

[mdhollis]

I can think of two ways to controlling the rod length.

1. Positive biasing the rod position voltage at pin #4. to the control loop should extend the rod and lower boost.
2. Positive biasing the T-MAP sensor.
3. Combination of the above.

I will set out a method to make this happen. I notice BMS sell a male/female plug for this wastegate sensor. If you can purchase one of those, I will pay you back. This will make life a lot easier.

http://www.burgertuning.com/N55_JB4_upgrades.html

Ok cool I have that harness already. I was actually going to mention it but I forgot. This harness only loops the wastegate rod position through the jb4....

Quick question, can this be done with a hfs-4 v2 controller? That's the controller I have...

[Richard L]

It is better than I expected, you are full of surprises.

I will make up an interface board for the EWG/HFS4's grey harness. I will use the White, brown and black wire. I believe those wires are available.

I will also send you a T-Map harness so we can that too. Please pm me your address,

[mdhollis]

Haha that's great, I try!

Yeah the white, black and brown are def open. Pm sent...

Will it be a problem if I have the tmap looped through the jb4 as well?


Not sure, we shall see, it always possible to do it on the output side of the JB to avoid any signal clash.

[mdhollis]

Oh Richard one more thing... I have a hell of a time soldering those little pins on the board. Can you take care of whatever needs to be soldered? Using 7 jets, 2.5 bar tmap

[Richard L]

Haha that's great, I try!

Yeah the white, black and brown are def open. Pm sent...

Will it be a problem if I have the tmap looped through the jb4 as well?


Not sure, we shall see, it always possible to do it on the output side of the JB to avoid any signal clash.

We can always wire it after the JB. It is only a push button for a second to drop boost.

[Richard L]

Oh Richard one more thing... I have a hell of a time soldering those little pins on the board. Can you take care of whatever needs to be soldered? Using 7 jets, 2.5 bar tmap



You don't need to do any soldering.

Post a picture of your set up.[/QUOTE]

[mdhollis]

Ok great Rich. Yeah I don't mind testing with the jb...

I believe the board is set up fine for the application I am installing right now, just wasn't sure exactly what you were sending me. If it was an additional control or a replacement hfs-4 controller....

Here is the pic of my board(v2 controller I bought in 2013, I ran on my old car):

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn193/Matthew_Hollis/2015-06-30%2012.33.11_zpsoqlhsq7a.jpg (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Matthew_Hollis/media/2015-06-30%2012.33.11_zpsoqlhsq7a.jpg.html)

[Richard L]

All the wirings will be outside of the controller, there is no modification or soldering on the controller. I will be utilising the white, brown and black wire of the grey harness when done.

At this stage, no need to involve the HFS4 at all. It will be clear when you receive the bundle.

[mdhollis]

All the wirings will be outside of the controller, there is no modification or soldering on the controller. I will be utilising the white, brown and black wire of the grey harness when done.

At this stage, no need to involve the HFS4 at all. It will be clear when you receive the bundle.

Ok great... Thanks so much Richard glad I can help move the platform forward!

[marcoac14]

Ok great... Thanks so much Richard glad I can help move the platform forward!

Hi,

Any news on this?

[Richard L]

Yes, it is all done and tested. Pm me.

[Docalex1]

Hi Richard, do you have any new development for the integration/connection with JB4 and the HFS 4 for the S55 motor?

[Richard L]

Hi Richard, do you have any new development for the integration/connection with JB4 and the HFS 4 for the S55 motor?

The failsafe options of the Aquamist system has been the same over the last 6 years. It comprises the following outputs:

1. Change-over relay output
2. Analogue output of the flow sensor
3. Frequency output of the flow sensor
4. Digital map-switch output

Anyone of the above output can be used on any third party ECU, including the JB4 piggyback. mechanical or electronic wastegate.

Our biggest problem with the JB4's failsafe input, both in "ever changing pin number" and signal levels. It is not easy for me to publish a wiring diagram that will work consistently with the JBS/s55 setup.

Secondly, JB4 failsafe algorithm relies on monitoring the pump current instead of the actual fluid flow. For this reason, I cannot guarantee if the JB4 have the programming capability of taking full advantage of the progressive flow output or the others from the Aquamist systems.

Finally, JB4's meth control is not progressive, it is either "ON" or "OFF". This is true from my recent visit to their site. It reads:

All kits integrate with the JB4 tuning system using the included FSB controller which allows for precise methanol solenoid mapping based on boost, throttle position, RPM, air intake temperature, advance, and other data elements available to the JB4 through its CANbus system. In addition the FSB feeds back an independent signal with pump loading and flow information allowing for safe and smooth progressive boost mapping. If the tank runs empty or flow drops for any reason the JB4 will safely back down performance to avoid knock. In addition methanol can be activated or disabled from the drivers seat and displayed in dash using your steering wheel control menu.

Unless you read the above description carefully, it didn't actually say the meth flow is "progressive". But "sounded" like it is. In reality, the meth flow stays 100% "ON" and boost is dancing around it.


I really think you should use the in-built aquamist failsafe, reading the real time fluid flow signal from a turbine flow sensor rather from a "make-shift" JB4 integration or from a "haphazard" pump current signal (FSB). It offers No added advantage, but loosing the "over-temperature", "overboost" options (HFS-4v3+).

Apologise for the long explanations. I cannot think of another way to do this.

[Richard L]

The following F80 s55 wiring diagram have just been updated, includes some guide to JB4, but the detail and configuration will have to be confirmed by BMS.

It also give you the choice of using aquamist's failsafe.


http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS4/wiring/BMW/v3.1_S55_GEN-v3.gif

[mk1_salami]

Hi Richard,

I'm looking to install my HFS3 kit on a 2014 m135i with EWG and JB4.

There is so much information out there from yourself and also from BMS it's a little confusing to say the least. Each say the others failsafe is not as good as the other and it leaves the end customer feeling frustrated. I hope you can help with a clear answer to some questions I - and hopefully many others - will find really useful when it comes to making a decision to purchase he Aquamist kit and making the install easier.

The JB4 offers a map3 for methanol injection. I plan to use this to run more boost and would like to spray the meth mix when on this map only.

There may be times when I'm traveling with the car and I don't have access to meth. I don't want me running out of meth to effectively render the car useless and run at hugely reduced boost level.

If for whatever reason there is a no or low flow situation I would like boost to be reduced when using this map only. If I have the aquamist gauge turned off - which I understand will stop the flow of meth I would still like to run a normal boost level when on another map (map6 in the case of the jb4).

So in essence I want to be able to run the car normally without meth if I choose to.

My understanding from what I've read is that I would be safe to use the Aquamist built in failsafe for this. I saw a promising conversation with an m235i owner about controlling the EWG on his car.

What would make more sense to me is to feed the flow information to the JB4, and allow it to pull boost if there is a problem. In your opinion is this a bad idea and why should using the Aquamist setup be more beneficial?

Finally, do you have a wiring diagram for the m135i EWG 2014?

If I can get all the information I plan to write a detailed post showing the install of this kit and integration with the jb4 if possible.

[Richard L]

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2713