Direct Port EVO IX rs HFS3

[Iguanapeluda]

Hi!,

I am from Spain, (Zaragoza).

I year ago, I bought a Mitsu Evo IX RS with some upgrades, turbo, inyectors, exhaust, ecu...etc etc...

This is my car:

http://i67.tinypic.com/1e2avq.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=062cdbaePPU

Well, now I am boosting around 24 Psi, then, I have some questions for calculate my nozzle.

- Inyectors 800cc....Max Duty 85%-----0.85 x 800cc x 4cylinder = 2720 cc.
- W50/50 with 15% ---------------------0.15 x 2720 cc = 408 cc of nozzle

Then if I want to install the following system:

http://i68.tinypic.com/2w582oi.gif

I have my first question...

To calculate the nozzle, How much nozzle I need to divide?

408 / 4 (direct port) = 100cc....
408 / 5 (direct port + post-ic ) = 80cc?

Thank you.

[Flr Power]

How much power are you making first?

[Iguanapeluda]

How much power are you making first?

Now the car runs 1.6bar and 420 hp at flywheel and 520 Nm with 8 degree if advance.

I want 20-25hp more, with more advance, cooler IAT and 1.75 bar, and furthermore, I want to clean the inside of the engine.

I will adjust my LINK ECU with dual map with more Advance and leaning the AFR.

[Flr Power]

I would shoot for a minimum of 500 cc total. 400cc for the engine and 100cc for the intake.

[rotrex]

Or even more flow at this power level. I run this at half the HP.
More gains more after a remap, especially for the direct port jets I have found since going from 0.3mm to 0.4mm-C size jets.
Don'T expect much IAT drop. That's not how WI works anyhow.

[parmas]

Or even more flow at this power level. I run this at half the HP.
More gains more after a remap, especially for the direct port jets I have found since going from 0.3mm to 0.4mm-C size jets.
Don'T expect much IAT drop. That's not how WI works anyhow.

I inject 44% Water/Meth (500cc) to Fuel (1130cc) ratio in a 1.5L engine @ 1.4Bar running 40s Ignition Timing on boost.

Theory is your guide........ Trial is your best friend

@Rotrex - What do you mean by "That's not how WI works anyhow" ?

[Iguanapeluda]

I would shoot for a minimum of 500 cc total. 400cc for the engine and 100cc for the intake.

Or even more flow at this power level. I run this at half the HP.
More gains more after a remap, especially for the direct port jets I have found since going from 0.3mm to 0.4mm-C size jets.
Don'T expect much IAT drop. That's not how WI works anyhow.

I inject 44% Water/Meth (500cc) to Fuel (1130cc) ratio in a 1.5L engine @ 1.4Bar running 40s Ignition Timing on boost.

Theory is your guide........ Trial is your best friend

@Rotrex - What do you mean by "That's not how WI works anyhow" ?

OK!!!Thank you for replies!!!,

I will get 5 Nozzles 0.4mm with 110cc (I think B type nozzle in 0.4mm). Then, I will need the following?

http://i63.tinypic.com/292ohf9.png

I have a question...the inlet Port diameter 4mm / 6mm which is exactly?, sorry, but I am new in this world...and I want to play with Aquamist and my car..

And...the kit is:

Package contains:
- Multiport hex manifold -----------------------------------------------OK
- Checkvalve jets with compression fittings --------------------------These are the 4 nozzle of 0.4mm type B?
- One 1/8 NPT jet adaptor (one per cylinder)-------------------------OK
- One checkvalve for post IC jet --------------------------------------This is the nozzle for the post IC...is another 0.4mm Type B?, or I have to buy the nozzle?
- One 4m to 1/8BSP compression fitting (hex port + 1) -----------What is this exacly?
- 4mm high temperature PTFE hose----------------------------------OK

Thank you.

[Richard L]

- Direct Port bundle: Type B is 110cc/min. x4 (806-501B)
- System comes standard with 3 nozzles, choose one of them a type B (806-301B). Not need to buy
-4(mm) to 1/8 fitting. This is the fitting for the 5th port on the hex manifold for the Post IC jet. (mis-print)

See below with numerical caption:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/DP setup-idx.gif


Package contains:
1. Multiport hex manifold
2. Checkvalve jets with compression fittings
3. One 1/8 NPT jet adaptor (one per cylinder)
4. One checkvalve for post IC jet
5. One 4m to 1/8BSP compression fitting for post iC jet (hex port + 1)
6. 4mm high temperature PTFE hose

[rotrex]

I inject 44% Water/Meth (500cc) to Fuel (1130cc) ratio in a 1.5L engine @ 1.4Bar running 40s Ignition Timing on boost.

Theory is your guide........ Trial is your best friend

@Rotrex - What do you mean by "That's not how WI works anyhow" ?

I mean with this than unless you inject large amounts of methanol, especially pre turbo like you, IATs won't drop that much. Most of the knock suppression happens due to the water droplets in the cylinder and the high octane of the methanol.

Your system is a bit special, indeed and shows significant drops in IAT. But you also have no change cooler. Your system is optimised to both drop IAT and get mix into the cylinder.

if you inject way less past a charge cooler, not to much IAT drop will happen. Most knock suppression is due to in cylinder effects.

Your install is also a good example what you can achieve with WI given you inject enough. 500ml/min for a 430HP engine in the OP' car is not what I consider a lot.

:-)

I am looking forward to some warmer weather to properly test the new bigger direct port nozzles.

Good to hear you car is still running strong.

[Iguanapeluda]

Ok, I have a Used HFS 3 V.2 (I think) that a friend sell me:

http://i63.tinypic.com/2u4lhty.jpg

I think that all I need is the following, tomorrow I will re-check.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2lblsev.png

I want to install yet!!! :D

[parmas]

:)I mean with this than unless you inject large amounts of methanol, especially pre turbo like you, IATs won't drop that much. Most of the knock suppression happens due to the water droplets in the cylinder and the high octane of the methanol.

To put the information right... during mixture trials with 100% water vs water/meth @ different percentages, best maximum ignition advance = best knock suppressor was found to be when injecting 100% water. Also IAT was found somewhere in the similar ranges.

The small improvement in IAT with Water/Meth mixed was due to the theory that with meth you can go above 100% Relative humidity. The advantage of using water only was also that after closing throttle, IAT continued to cool for more time although not injecting vs water/meth since meth dissolves earlier than water

In order to reach the same ignition advance I used a mixture of Water/Meth 60/40 with 44% being W.I and 56% being pump fuel. Almost running 20% methanol burn...

Your system is a bit special, indeed and shows significant drops in IAT. But you also have no change cooler. Your system is optimised to both drop IAT and get mix into the cylinder.

if you inject way less past a charge cooler, not to much IAT drop will happen. Most knock suppression is due to in cylinder effects.

Why using a charge cooler then..... :confused: if you have water injection ?

Your install is also a good example what you can achieve with WI given you inject enough. 500ml/min for a 430HP engine in the OP' car is not what I consider a lot.

Cheers :)

:-)

I am looking forward to some warmer weather to properly test the new bigger direct port nozzles.

Good to hear you car is still running strong.

...........

[Iguanapeluda]

Well....Today I have removed my intake manifold and the surprise is that the cleaning of the intake valves...

http://i65.tinypic.com/2yxr602.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/10ojgc0.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/nvvek9.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/10ojgc0.jpg

And the intake manifold

http://i68.tinypic.com/1zb9da0.jpg

And the shippment of Aquamist...all perfect:

http://i67.tinypic.com/2zs88w2.jpg

[Richard L]

Have you been running water injection before the strip down?

I can see your toys have arrived...

[Iguanapeluda]

Have you been running water injection before the strip down?

I can see your toys have arrived...


hi Richard, the toys are all perfect to install it..:):):)

The first question I don´t knock translate exacly "strip down"..sorry

[Richard L]

I meant before the manifold was taken off.

[Iguanapeluda]

I meant before the manifold was taken off.

No no, my car doesn´t have meth, this is my first time that I have to install it and I want to try understand this system with a dyno day....

you will help me in 1 month...:p

[Richard L]

The inlet tracts are very clean so I though you might have w/m injection before.

[Iguanapeluda]

The inlet tracts are very clean so I though you might have w/m injection before.

Yes, there are very clean, and this engine never has installed Meth, I know the last driver´s.

Well...What number do you like more?

http://i65.tinypic.com/11ug568.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2z4mu68.jpg

[Richard L]

If you are referring to the direct port jets, 1 is good.

[Iguanapeluda]

If you are referring to the direct port jets, 1 is good.

Yes is for the direct port, I think that in the mark number 1 don`t have the suficient time to evaporate or mix with the air...jaja

But if you say me number 1. Tomorrow I will put in this place.

[Richard L]

The 5th jet (post IC) should be the air cooling work. The port jets will do the the combustion chamber cooling.

[Iguanapeluda]

The 5th jet (post IC) should be the air cooling work. The port jets will do the the combustion chamber cooling.

Richad, I have a question.

If I put the jet in the place that you are tell me...is possible that the water spray crash with the intake and condensed water?...

http://i67.tinypic.com/5p5251.png

It will be better install the jets in the final of the runners opposite injectors with an angle like the inyectors?

http://i67.tinypic.com/demx47.jpg

Thank you!!!

[parmas]

Condensed water will eventually continue cooling the charge even when no water is injected

[Richard L]

The mass of air flowing across the spray will be around 2kgs/min. If you are injecting 100g/min, what are the chances of the spray hitting the opposite wall?

Answer, very little.

The aquamist jet has a spray angle of ~80 degrees. You cannot angle the jet too much or risk spoiling the spray pattern. If this happens, you will loose 25% of the atomisation. If you want a good atomisation, point the jet against the air flow.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/spray-angle.gif

[Flr Power]

It doesn't matter. If you think about it, some water will make it's way to the intake valves and sit there waiting for the next engine cycle.

[Iguanapeluda]

Well....finally...

What do you prefer...

In this place? With this installation...

http://i66.tinypic.com/2ebtu0m.png
http://i66.tinypic.com/jqtkq8.jpg

Or in the initial place? (Number 1 place)

http://i63.tinypic.com/do3z28.jpg

[Richard L]

90-degree is the angle I recommend and the easiest. But you can try other angles if you prepare to make the jet adaptor to fit properly.

[Iguanapeluda]

90-degree is the angle I recommend and the easiest. But you can try other angles if you prepare to make the jet adaptor to fit properly.

Ok ok, I will put 90º in the "1" place.

Thank you Richard, I will inform for the updates with the installation.

[Iguanapeluda]

Well...jet´s installed in the only place that I can put...

http://i67.tinypic.com/30cxhs7.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2u5x16d.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/bhkoqp.jpg

And the fifht jet:
http://i63.tinypic.com/2mo5thj.jpg

[Flr Power]

Don't use these clamps with boost.

[Iguanapeluda]

Don't use these clamps with boost.

T-BOLT Is better?

[Flr Power]

T-BOLT Is better?

Yes you will need them for high boost.

[Iguanapeluda]

Well,

A upgrade of my proyect...I think the place of the FAV and the 4 way manifold...

What do you think for the place?

thank you.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2qsrtc2.jpg

[Iguanapeluda]

Well...

I this friday I will tune my ecu with water/meth...

https://youtu.be/vhUKnBiXf-I

I am scary with this quantity of water.

Note...I can´t preview the video..

[jbailey]

Yes you will need them for high boost.

This is incorrect. I have NEVER needed t-bolts on cars that we're running 30+psi on.

T-bolts do not provide even clamping force around the entire surface of the band. You also run the risk of over-tightening and collapsing the pipes.

Normal worm gear clamps work excellent. Turbosmart also makes a constant tension clamp that you can use if you're having issues holding normal clamps on.

[jbailey]

Well...

I this friday I will tune my ecu with water/meth...

https://youtu.be/vhUKnBiXf-I

I am scary with this quantity of water.

Note...I can´t preview the video..


Beautiful atomization!

Why are you scared regarding the quantity of water?