2D is amazing

[chucktoo]

Great to have the Forum back - it is truely a great source of information.

Living Boston we have had some very cold weather lately sub zero f has been common.

I have a 2005 Subaru Outback XT with dual 2D systems each one supply in a 1.0 mm jet installed exit of my intercooler.

I am running 1/3 methanol and 2/3 water which should be good to less than -15F - it has not gotten that cold.

My HSVs [ 2 of them ] and manifold pressure switch and water manifold are mounted under the windshiled wiper cowel - where the wiper motor is - lots of room but no heat.

This morning ~5F the manifold pressure switch froze ON and the 2D were running all the time matching the pulses from the fuel injectors instead of turning on at 13 psi manifold pressure.

The amazing thing is the car started just fine and ran just fine .

The proportional control of the 2D works real real well.

Later in the day the pressure switch thawed out and all was back to normal.

Any ideas how to prevent this freeze up again other than the obvious move the switch to a warmer place ?

[hotrod]

Interesting observation.
Here where I live I simply shut the WI off at temps below 50 deg F or so.

Not sure what the temperature rating is for your switch. You might be able to chase that down from the manufacture if you have the part number. It could be just a case of lubricant in the switch getting stiff at cold temps.

One solution used in electronic equipment would be to build a small "oven" for the pressure switch.

Build a small sheet metal enclosure (possibly a metal circuit box) around the switch and put a small 12v lamp inside the box. Find a temperature switch that would close at cold temps and put it in the box as well. If the temp is low, the thermal switch closes, and turns on the small 12 v lamp (only when the ignition is on! ) , the heat from the lamp warms the switch until the thermal switch shuts off as it warms up.

You could also make the 12v lamp a manual heater with a simple switch.


You could also substitute a common resistor for the lamp.

Larry

[EvoTio]

I would mount the pressure switch inside your passenger compartment where it will be warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

[chucktoo]

My switch is standard ERL that come with the 2D.

I am going to relocate the switch to some place warmer - it clealry does not like NE Winters.

I will need map switching if I turn off the WI - which is not there from ECUtek yet for my car. My 20% water makes a large difference in how the car runs - hopfully will get dyno data next week when it goes above freezing here.

This is what I a planning to do - this is a great calculator. (http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml?FeetASL=0&Tamb=21&Bore=99.5&Stroke=79&nCyl=4&RPM=8000&VE=85&Boost=28&Ec=70&Eic=70&PdropIC=0.5&TambIC=21&wiPercentMethanol=33&wiRate=820&wiTemp=21&wiLoc=3&SFC=0.49&AFR=11.5&maxInjectorDutyCycle=95)

This will require a third set of jets - like a 1S in operatoin that kick in at 25psi or so.

This is on a fully built engine that hopefully can handle the boost.

http://axispowerracing.net/stage5motor.html

Thanks Charlie

[CnC]

Just wondering how the 2D system will cope with staged injection and two seperate fuel rails containing 4 injectors each.

The injectors are arranged in 2 fuel rails containing 4 550cc injectors each, the secondary injectors will be phased in once the primary injectors reach a specified duty cycle (probably around %75-80).

[chucktoo]

All depends on how your wire up the signals to the FIA2.

My firing order is 1-3-2-4 so I drive one FIA with cyl 1 and the other with cyl 2 to spread the water out evenly over the complete cycle.

It was shown in other posts that yuo can diode OR cylinders [Fuel Injectors] together to get what ever you like.

I used dual HSV becuase I was afraid of pressure drops across it with large jets.

I wuld like to see pressure drop vs flow through an HSV [ Richard ? ]
this would tell us how much jet we can put on a valve.

I am using a Shruflo 140 psi pump at 135 psi so there is plenty of flow.

http://www.shurflo.com/pages/new_industrial/Industrial/gen_industrial/genind_doc_sum/8030-813-239.html

[chucktoo]

We pull the tubing off that runs from the manifold pressure tap to the
WI pressure switch and it was full of water as so was the switch itself.

Turns out durring the install they use that piece of tubing to test the water pump and forgot the blow it out [ they will never make that mistake again ].

Tubing and switch have been dewatered and a filter inserted into the line to help prevent the problem isn the future.

[Richard L]

All depends on how your wire up the signals to the FIA2.

My firing order is 1-3-2-4 so I drive one FIA with cyl 1 and the other with cyl 2 to spread the water out evenly over the complete cycle.

It was shown in other posts that yuo can diode OR cylinders [Fuel Injectors] together to get what ever you like.

I used dual HSV becuase I was afraid of pressure drops across it with large jets.

I wuld like to see pressure drop vs flow through an HSV [ Richard ? ]
this would tell us how much jet we can put on a valve.

I am using a Shruflo 140 psi pump at 135 psi so there is plenty of flow.

http://www.shurflo.com/pages/new_industrial/Industrial/gen_industrial/genind_doc_sum/8030-813-239.html

The HSV can flow around 700cc of water with approximately 0.7bar pressure drop (delta).

[Richard L]

We pull the tubing off that runs from the manifold pressure tap to the
WI pressure switch and it was full of water as so was the switch itself.

Turns out durring the install they use that piece of tubing to test the water pump and forgot the blow it out [ they will never make that mistake again ].

Tubing and switch have been dewatered and a filter inserted into the line to help prevent the problem isn the future.

Is the pressure switch a hobb switxch or and aquamist switch?

[chucktoo]

Hi Richard

Thanks for the pressure drop information. I can clearly add more jets if needed to the existing HSVs. Right now we are at 20% water mix to fuel ratio.

If you have not tried this program it make some resonable estimates of WI gains. I have put in where I think my car currently is. Only the dyno will tell.

http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml?FeetASL=0&Tamb=21&Bore=99.5&Stroke=79&nCyl=4&RPM=6000&VE=85&Boost=20&Ec=70&Eic=70&PdropIC=0.5&TambIC=21&wiPercentMethanol=33&wiRate=380&wiTemp=21&wiLoc=3&SFC=0.49&AFR=11.8&maxInjectorDutyCycle=60

The switch is reinstalled so I do not kow the manufacture.

When it get warm enough to dyno and tune I expect we will be getting to it again to change where the WI comes on and I can look at it.

All I can tell you is the current switch looks like it is chrome or nickle plated if that help at all.

I really don't expect any more trouble - it really was an installation error.