doctorfrag
07-03-2005, 04:25 PM
Hi,
I have a Fiat coupe 20vt (5 cylinder) with a n Aquamist 1s sytem, and Unichip piggy back ECU to take care of the fuelling and ignition timing.
After fitting the Unichip and Aquamist, I wondered whether I would be able to use the spare ouput from the DDS2 monitoring system to activate another Map in the unichip to see if I could get any more power out of my coupe.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/806-425/806-425m.JPG
The theory behind it, is that a flow sensor detects when the aquamist is running. I am using a 50/50 methanol/water mix, which as well as providing some extra cooling to the charge also increases the effective RON of the fuel, so extra ignition advance can be used.
The unichip does not have two maps, but it has a 'base' map, and also a 'full load' map. This full load map apprently is rarely used on turbo cars, but can be used to provide a dual map system.
At my last power run at PTS ,Luton, I got 288bhp, but I have since fitted a straight through induction pipe and Ramair filter, and changed my Pace FMIC for and EVO FMIC.
Paul at PTS, wanted to see if this dual map system was feasable, he had used in conjunction with nitrous systems but never before with water injection. Richard had not seen it used with water injection before, tuners seem to be wary about it.
He spent a lot of time with Richard from Aquamist whom was extremeley helpful :cool:, and also with Dastek, for the Unichip side of things.
they first ran a 'Base' map, this is really what everything works from ,changing the fueling and igniton versus air flow, checking Air/fuel mixture with a wide band sensor, running at 1.3 bar.
They then installed the DDS2, and after some playing about, got it working nicely with the unichip.
They then used the Unichip to develop the secondary 'full load' map.
First off, they ran the car with the secondary map and made 340bhp :eek: :eek: :D, but there was some pinking.
Although ,Paul said some tuners might leave it there, he did not want to hear any pinking, so reduced the base map down until they could hear no pinking, she was about 320bhp now.
However, Paul wanted a safe reliable car, and wondered what about warmer weather, lower grade fuel etc, and particulary as I'd like to go on the track/sprints etc, pulled back the timing another degree on the base map, and made 303bhp :cool:
I have used PTS many times, and referenced there rolling road against Power engineering and G-force, each time they were withing 3bhp of the results obtained from these. They also have given accurate results with standard cars I have put there before.
5 degrees additional timing dropping to 2 degrees at redline 17degC
http://homepages.which.net/~j.machen/Coupe/dualmap.jpg
Red Shows Standard turbo running 1 bar
Purple Shows Novitec(unmapped) hybrid Pace fmic etc 1.45bar
Yesterdays results 17deg C
Green Shows Unichip water injection, standard map EVO fmic induction pipe 1.3 bar
Black Shows Dual map activated 1.3 bar
the last two are of most relevance, and shows 5-10bhp difference between 3-5000rpm :cool:, and up to 15bhp difference 5000rpm-redline.
Torque curve
http://homepages.which.net/~j.machen/Coupe/dualtorque.jpg
Here you can see far more dramatic results, the spool up time of the turbo has been improved, but the Unichip mapping and EVO IC have dramatically increased off boost torque :eek:dramatically improved with 20-30lb/ft increases 2-3000rpm, and up to60lb/ft between 3-3500rpm.
you can see the dual map ( black ) and the extra torque it runs throughout the rev range.
I'm very pleased, she feels very eager and responsive, and I'm not worried about giving it some welly :D :D
Although it would have been nice to have seen 320 or 340bhp!, this would have been done at the expense of reliablity, so although good for pub figures and a rolling road ,not so good when my car gives up in the summer.
My hybrid is at the end of its efficiency island at peak power, so is causing more back pressure and more heat, I suspect, without going for a 2.4 conversion, the way forward will be a roller bearing unit, although I suspect I would only gain another 5-10bhp from this .
A 3" downpipe will complement the roller unit, and well, maybe might get some C+B cams in there..... ;)
plus I have'nt started playing with nitromethane yet :lol:
In the near future, we are going to try some different jet sizes, as obviously 340bhp is possible, and I want it!! :? :shock: :lol: , if we can suppress detonation effectively enough, but I would still want the ignition retarded enough for safety as has been done here, all of this was at 1.25-1.3 bar boost which is about max for good efficiency with this turbo :)
Joe
I have a Fiat coupe 20vt (5 cylinder) with a n Aquamist 1s sytem, and Unichip piggy back ECU to take care of the fuelling and ignition timing.
After fitting the Unichip and Aquamist, I wondered whether I would be able to use the spare ouput from the DDS2 monitoring system to activate another Map in the unichip to see if I could get any more power out of my coupe.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/806-425/806-425m.JPG
The theory behind it, is that a flow sensor detects when the aquamist is running. I am using a 50/50 methanol/water mix, which as well as providing some extra cooling to the charge also increases the effective RON of the fuel, so extra ignition advance can be used.
The unichip does not have two maps, but it has a 'base' map, and also a 'full load' map. This full load map apprently is rarely used on turbo cars, but can be used to provide a dual map system.
At my last power run at PTS ,Luton, I got 288bhp, but I have since fitted a straight through induction pipe and Ramair filter, and changed my Pace FMIC for and EVO FMIC.
Paul at PTS, wanted to see if this dual map system was feasable, he had used in conjunction with nitrous systems but never before with water injection. Richard had not seen it used with water injection before, tuners seem to be wary about it.
He spent a lot of time with Richard from Aquamist whom was extremeley helpful :cool:, and also with Dastek, for the Unichip side of things.
they first ran a 'Base' map, this is really what everything works from ,changing the fueling and igniton versus air flow, checking Air/fuel mixture with a wide band sensor, running at 1.3 bar.
They then installed the DDS2, and after some playing about, got it working nicely with the unichip.
They then used the Unichip to develop the secondary 'full load' map.
First off, they ran the car with the secondary map and made 340bhp :eek: :eek: :D, but there was some pinking.
Although ,Paul said some tuners might leave it there, he did not want to hear any pinking, so reduced the base map down until they could hear no pinking, she was about 320bhp now.
However, Paul wanted a safe reliable car, and wondered what about warmer weather, lower grade fuel etc, and particulary as I'd like to go on the track/sprints etc, pulled back the timing another degree on the base map, and made 303bhp :cool:
I have used PTS many times, and referenced there rolling road against Power engineering and G-force, each time they were withing 3bhp of the results obtained from these. They also have given accurate results with standard cars I have put there before.
5 degrees additional timing dropping to 2 degrees at redline 17degC
http://homepages.which.net/~j.machen/Coupe/dualmap.jpg
Red Shows Standard turbo running 1 bar
Purple Shows Novitec(unmapped) hybrid Pace fmic etc 1.45bar
Yesterdays results 17deg C
Green Shows Unichip water injection, standard map EVO fmic induction pipe 1.3 bar
Black Shows Dual map activated 1.3 bar
the last two are of most relevance, and shows 5-10bhp difference between 3-5000rpm :cool:, and up to 15bhp difference 5000rpm-redline.
Torque curve
http://homepages.which.net/~j.machen/Coupe/dualtorque.jpg
Here you can see far more dramatic results, the spool up time of the turbo has been improved, but the Unichip mapping and EVO IC have dramatically increased off boost torque :eek:dramatically improved with 20-30lb/ft increases 2-3000rpm, and up to60lb/ft between 3-3500rpm.
you can see the dual map ( black ) and the extra torque it runs throughout the rev range.
I'm very pleased, she feels very eager and responsive, and I'm not worried about giving it some welly :D :D
Although it would have been nice to have seen 320 or 340bhp!, this would have been done at the expense of reliablity, so although good for pub figures and a rolling road ,not so good when my car gives up in the summer.
My hybrid is at the end of its efficiency island at peak power, so is causing more back pressure and more heat, I suspect, without going for a 2.4 conversion, the way forward will be a roller bearing unit, although I suspect I would only gain another 5-10bhp from this .
A 3" downpipe will complement the roller unit, and well, maybe might get some C+B cams in there..... ;)
plus I have'nt started playing with nitromethane yet :lol:
In the near future, we are going to try some different jet sizes, as obviously 340bhp is possible, and I want it!! :? :shock: :lol: , if we can suppress detonation effectively enough, but I would still want the ignition retarded enough for safety as has been done here, all of this was at 1.25-1.3 bar boost which is about max for good efficiency with this turbo :)
Joe