Pure Distilled Water

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by ricekikr

I understand the benefit of 50/50 at lower boost. But how come most people still run 50/50 when boosting 25+psi (I assume this is high boost)?

I have a 97 Audi 1.8t, currently boosting it 20psi stock block. I'm gona be building up the block in the next couple of months and plan on water or w/m injection and increasing boost to 25+ (probably around 30psi).

I'm really confused because most people use 50/50 and make power, never seen anyone use pure water, even though it costs less, should make more power, enables us to run shit loads of timing/boost and actually use less gasoline.

Questions:
1. So which will produce more HP? Pure water or 50w/50m or pure meth?
2. Why even use meth when pure water (from what I read) has a lot more benefit?

TIA

It comes down to simple power production capability.
I have developed cars with both *water* and *WM50/50*
In short WM50/50 makes more power and is not as sensitive to low ignition power and allows you to use more conventional AFR settings most tuners are comforatble with.
Water works well, but on like settings makes less power (read my member rides thread for detailed discussion of different settings on my car and proof). To get water to perform at its highest levels you need to have a very high capaicty ignition in a high speed engine, and also you need to have much less fuel going through the engine, otherwise you will notice a power loss on fixed settings (like timing, boost, rpm etc).
This is well documented.
WM50/50 is the best I have found, it's window of tuning is more convential, and the power you make simply can't be ignored either, this is the main reason why I use it.
I have gone through this same situation many times repeated with a few drag racing customers who are running leaded VP Racing C16 fuel, and the results have been the same as I found testing in my own road car (which I used to verify their own feedback to me). WM50/50 will do the main job you want of improving the turbo efficiency, reduce the charge temperature, eliminate all knock in the engine, allow conventional settings of the engine managment (spark and fueling) + give you maximum power results which will translate to real world time improvments and higher velocities in whatever you are using the car for, road racing, drag racing, dyno sheet racing !

Hope this helps a bit?

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/...?t=1590&page=3 My own information and testing from page 3 inclusive, there is allot of information, but it all points to more power as what got me originally to test this myself after some prompting from my end users (after basically the same questioning as you have made)

p.s. In my own opinion I feel the mixture of the chemically combined WM50/50 lets the water do it's job and more of it is being utilized, in itsself the amount of M you are adding is trivial in the scheme of things on convential ratios of injection, it seems to me to make the water work (I.E. vaporize easier) the charge air temperature difference is where the extra density comes from (more air inhaled despite the injection of this additional fluid) and the cooler running is noticeable in all area's. When you hear a water injected car (water or WM50/50) running well nothing sounds like it! they have a certain note to them that is hard to describe, maybe its just eh sound of brute power? but you can hear and feel the power, they are unreal...... to get them to deliver perfectly, they do need fine calibration and indiviual tuning, once you find the sweet spot though you will know it and will never run your car without it. Tuning is the key to making it work perfectly.

[ricekikr]

Originally Posted by Richard L

Assuming you have already running an ideal a/f ratio of 12.5:1 (in general), neither liquid will be needed as extra fuel (alcohol). In this case, you need to consider water injection is better to control your peak combustion temperature spikes

Thanks for another great reply. Your posts are the main reason I think pure water is better or good enough (like in wrc)

So do you mean that if my current fuel/spark system allows me to run around 12.5a/r water will be more beneficial?

I've tried 12-12.5 before, but got a lot of timing pull, I now run 11.5 it has little less timing pull, . So in this scenario is pure water more benificiary?

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

In short WM50/50 makes more power and is not as sensitive to low ignition power and allows you to use more conventional AFR settings most tuners are comforatble with.[/i]

Thank you for replying.

Conventional being higher than 12 afr?

So basically even if I can ignite it and have higher than normal AFRs, w/m will still produce more HP vs pure water? Or would they have the same effect?

I ask because I've seen two 1.8t produce power (without meth or water) on 93pump on a 1.8t @ around 13afr. Not sure how much timing pull.

Dyno @ 13afr/93pump/25psi - Check the AFR


Thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4065844

[RICE RACING]

^ You really need to experiment yourself and see what works for you. On tests where you know all the factors invovled (and its not doctored one way or the other for a fixed result) in my samples (end users and myself) I found WM50/50 to be superior for power production *the end result more than justifies the hassel of making it*

I don't have enough time to theorise too much about it but I did go to the effort of documenting it with all associated settings and power production with vehicular performance and it's def better in my own finding.

[ricekikr]

Oh ok. Guess its really a case to case basis. Maybe that's why some people make more power with pure meth or 75meth. I just always leaning towards the tuning side why some make power some don't.

Anyways thanks for the info. Greatly appreciate it.

Gona try pure water and 50/50 and see which makes more power with my engine